Posts by pirata

21

Birthdays Okay -- if done by Fractions

by FatFreek 2005 in

i have 2 sons who live close to each other.

thankfully, they are emotionally close despite the fact that the oldest never was baptized and therefore not bound by wt standards.. the youngest, the jw, had a birthday on the 1st of the month.

i wished him a happy one -- but, of course, only in my mind knowing that he would dismiss such a wish if he even talked with me on the phone.

pirata

Probably because even JWs realize that "their" arguments against birthday parties are pretty weak.

9

i have recenly had a conversation with some elders and they told me that i shouldn't listen to music that's heavy,meaning distorder guitar riffs,breakdowns brutal vocals even if the lyrics are positive.secondly they say that we shouldn't read books that mention anything related to "spiritualism" but all of the jws study odyssey,history,ancient greek language at school and all of these subjects refer to the pantheon,heathen stuff etc.my question is:how to can someone abstain from reading these things if he is taught them at school while the elders are informed about it?how music can harm anyone if the lyrics are ok even if the music is fast or heavy or both?.

pirata

The Bible has it's fair share of of violence, sex and spiritism (ie. the last few chapters of Judges, for example). Just cause we read it in the Bible doesn't mean we are enjoying it; It is for educational purposes. School work is not for entertainment, it is for educational purposes.

You'll find it hard to find a north american born witness who hasn't studied Hamlet, Greek Mythology, Lord of the Flies, or similar.

If there's nothing wrong with the music lyrics, then it sounds like the elders are hoisting their personal preferences on you. Many of the modern kingdom melodies (esp. Volume 9) would have been cast in the same light years ago with their new age sound and jazz styles. The g92 11/8 "A balanced view of entertainment" (after mentioning heavy metal and rap music) states "Granted, these are extreme cases and they do not mean that all entertainment in some of these various categories is bad." This issue is addressed well in the w80 5/1 article "Do Not Judge Others". Also helps to keep your thoughts and personal preferences to yourself if you want to avoid that argument that you are 'stumbling others'.

23

Why is there a need for Ministry School presentations?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

we were told that the preaching work was lead and guided by ''angels'' and the holy spirit.. if that is so,why the need for magazine presentations week after week?

why is a half hour spent showing each member what to say and how to respond to certain questions?

why practice presentations when the angels and holy spirit are there to help?.

pirata

It is so that the rocks do not have to do the preaching work.

30

Sitting on the Fence....to believe or not to believe, that is my dilemma.

by tootie in

jw
friends

i was raised by a "strong" jw single mother.

she was very very strict but i loved her then and always will.

after the death of my mother i waivered back and forth with my spirituality only because this was my first chance of "freedom" and being in the world to do things that i never really got to do.

pirata

It sounds to me like your main reason for leaving is not wanting to follow all the (man-made) rules. That's a valid reason, but leaving on those grounds alone may leave long-term doubts in your mind.

Understanding the arguments on both sides of the fence will help you to make a more informed decision that you can feel comfortable live with. Do your own research into the history of the organization. Decide if the many of the rules/policies are really scriptural. Look through the emotion of negative comments on this board and see the facts, logic and scriptural reasonings being made. Read Crisis of Conscience. Read the stories on Free Minds. Making an informed decisions will help you to stick with it and feel good about it.

There are millions of non-religious people who lead happy lives. JWs often believe that the world is made up exclusively of unhappy, unloving people, but that is just not the case.

47

Back. and seeking ideas for screwing over the memorial

by Sirona in

jw
friends

ok. me and friends are going to attend a memorial on 30 march.. what would be the best way to get our message across?.

should we just throw a hundred flyers into the hall in the middle of the memorial?.

should we drink the wine and eat all the bread and then stand up and say something?.

pirata

Number of times "apostate" opposers who disrupted the meetings and wore billboards outside conventions assemblies got me to think: Zero.

Number of times casual chats with "worldly people" at the doors, work, etc started to get me to think: Many times.

Causing a disruption will just reinforce the congregtions stereotype about angry, bitter apostates out to get revenge and make trouble.

24

you should not have to choose between your religion and family ! (awake mag quote)

by looloo in

jw
friends

last summer there was a big upset caused by an article (july ,ithink) in the awake about a hindu lady that upset her family by leaving her religion and joining jehovahs witnesses and the ironic thing was it had the above quote in it , that someone should not have to choose between family and religion !

i printed the article off and underlined that section , and recently sent it to my inlaws along with a letter , because they are upset about not seeing their grandchild because they banned their son from the house (he sdisfellowshipped) i am trying to sort the situation out , and i thought they might notice the hypocrisy in the article , however that idea did not work as apparently" there are lies on the internet !

" and father in law was not very happy to receive it , but it is from an awake magazine ,watchtower literature !

pirata

Reading that article for the first time in 2009 sent a tingle up my spine. Something about it just felt wrong. This article and the Sept 07 KM (which discourages "independent" research) were the articles that helped me to see that something just wasn't right with these double standards.. Unfortunately, this realization often has to come from within. Many people will "block out" information that they don't WANT to believe.

8

Are you hearing "IF armaddon comes" more than "WHEN" nowadays? Have the old ones

by hamsterbait in

jw
friends

i visited friends recently - they accept me even though i have not been in months.. the wife remarked "if armageddon comes, we wont be worrying about the house.".

another time, the (now ex elduh) said "when i retire, or armageddon comes, i want to < >".

remember the scripture about the slave?.

pirata

Many witnesses I know talk about the future and make sure to throw "that is if armageddon hasn't come by then..." at the end of the sentence. That way you can still make plans but sound like you are still "keeping on the watch"

33

How Would You Define a 'False Christian'?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

on another thread, a christian used the phrase, "true christian".. .

this got me to thinking, how would you define a "false christian"?

lwt.

pirata

Aguest, would it be fair to summarize your posts as "A false christian is one who does not receive God's spirit?". In other words, it is not dependent on belonging to any organization. However, is it possible for true christians that belong to any church group? JWs? Catholics? Baptists? Mormons? Protestants? etc?

Peace to you too! :)

17

The meaning of "abstain from blood"

by voodoo lady in

this has been a fixation for me lately, mostly in trying to appeal to my mother to at least consider blood transfusions as an option in the most extenuating circumstances.

my attempts have fallen flat thus far.

we've discussed principles versus rules, and though she concedes that principles are in fact more important than rules, she reverses her stance when it comes to this particular issue, and rules become more important than principles.

pirata

May I add: Reasoning with her may not change her mind, but it may get her to start thinking about accepting all minor fractions, including Hemoglobin.

17

The meaning of "abstain from blood"

by voodoo lady in

this has been a fixation for me lately, mostly in trying to appeal to my mother to at least consider blood transfusions as an option in the most extenuating circumstances.

my attempts have fallen flat thus far.

we've discussed principles versus rules, and though she concedes that principles are in fact more important than rules, she reverses her stance when it comes to this particular issue, and rules become more important than principles.

pirata

By the time I finished typing this up poopsiecakes & jwfacts already posted many of these points. But here's my personal list that led me to change my mind about the WTS Blood Policy (thanks to many others who have posted here and elsewhere).

Genesis 9:3,4: Blood represents the animals "soul" or life

Leviticus 17:10-12: The Blood was an atonement for the life taken. (Is a life being taken for a blood transfusion?)

Leviticus 7:22-27: Anyone eating the fat of certain animals or the blood of any animal would be killed. (But was this a hard and fast rule? See next scripture).

Leviticus 17:13-17 (Also Leviticus 11:39.40) A Israelite would be killed if they killed an animal and then ate the blood. If they found an animal already dead and ate the blood, they would be unclean and need to bathe in water and remain unclean until the evening. (Again this shows that blood is an atonement for a person who purposefuly killed an animal. Eating an already dead unbled animal was allowed).

Deuteronomy 14:21: Israelites were allowed to sell unbled meat from an already dead animal to a foreigner to eat (w 04 9/15 p26). This and the preceeding scripture show that the primary issue for not eating the blood of an unbled animal was cleanliness of a "holy" people. A seperate issue from atonement.

1 Samuel 14:31-35: The Israelites disobeyed God's command of eating the blood of animals they purposefully killed. They were given a reprimand, not killed. They atoned for their sin by offering sacrifices. 1 Sam 14:23 and 1 Samuel 15:1-3 suggest that Saul was still in God's favor during this period of time.

Now how does that apply to Christians?

Acts 5:28,29 says to abstain from 'things sacrificed to idols', 'blood', 'immorality'. Why was this?

1 Cor 8:4-13 shows that eating food offered to Idols was a conscience matter. However, the gentile christians were exhorted to not stumble the Jewish Christians. This can be seen by the fact that 1 Cor 6:9-11 and Galatians 5:19-21, both extensive lists of things that Christians must avoid, make no mention of abstaining from blood and things sacrificed to idols. Also, Acts 5:28,29 was by no means an exhaustive list, thus there were the "necessary things" to promote peace between the Jewish and Gentile Christians (reading the whole of Acts 5 will show that the whole issue arose because some Jewish Christians were saying it was necessary to be circumcised).

Note: The WTS says that the phrase "things sacrificed to idols" means "idolatry". However if you check the WTS Greek Interlinear Bible, you will see that the EXACT same word is translated "things sacrificed to idols" and "food sacrificed to idols" in Acts 5 and 1 Cor 8, respectively. They are referring to the same thing.

In Conclusion from the above scriptures: For the Israelites. Abstaining from Blood means showing respect for, or atoning for an animal that has died in order to provide you sustenance. For Christians these rules were recommended only to avoid stumbling others who were sensitive aout this issue. A blood transfusion does not result in the death of the donor's life, and thus, should not be connected to the atonement "principle" of the mosaic law.