MrMonroe

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Posts by MrMonroe

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  11

  Current WT Library CD

  by grewupjw1969 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  im looking for the current cd if anyone has it and is willing to burn me a copy.

  i am willing to pay for it along with shipping.. .

  grewup.

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  MrMonroe

  I've downloaded it from that address and it works fine.
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  15

  Was the policy change to equate DA to DF because of Ray?

  by teel in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as ray says in the last chapter of coc, before 1981 da was quite different from df.

  "persons who resigned were not treated the same as those disfellowshiped", they were not shunned for example, except when the dad person enters into politics or military.. i put it on account of humbleness that ray says he doesn't think they changed the policy just to use it against him, he probably feels he wasn't so significant as to warrant such a far-reaching change.

  but it seems way too convenient that the policy change came at that exact time, too much of a coincidence.

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  MrMonroe

  I knew I had this quote somewhere ... Heather and Gary Botting, in "The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses" (1984) quoted the September 15, 1981 article and commented: "The magazine article might have been written specifically for Franz." They note that the article was "studied" on October 25, 1981, and on November 5 two elders visited Franz to tell him they were laying a formal charge against him. The change in policy could well have been introduced for the sole purpose of providing the "technical infaction" (as Time magazine called it) for which Franz was ultimately expelled.
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  15

  Was the policy change to equate DA to DF because of Ray?

  by teel in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as ray says in the last chapter of coc, before 1981 da was quite different from df.

  "persons who resigned were not treated the same as those disfellowshiped", they were not shunned for example, except when the dad person enters into politics or military.. i put it on account of humbleness that ray says he doesn't think they changed the policy just to use it against him, he probably feels he wasn't so significant as to warrant such a far-reaching change.

  but it seems way too convenient that the policy change came at that exact time, too much of a coincidence.

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  MrMonroe

  The change in policy was announced in the September 15, 1981 WT. Under the heading, "Those who disassociate themselves", it read:

  Persons who make themselves “not of our sort” by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing.

  End of quote. No scripture to support the change in policy, no nothing. Franz was already in a state of friction with the WTS; his landlord and employer had submitted his letter of disassociation in March 1981. The announcement of the change in attitude towards DA'd people was published in the September 15, 1981 WT and two months later Franz was put on trial for (retrospectively) breaching that direction.
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  5

  "Knocking" Director, Joel Engardio, wonders why JWs bother to adhere to a no-blood theology

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/02/witnesses_blood_and_spiritual_complications.htmlwitnesses, blood and spiritual complications begin blogger thumbs end blogger thumbs by joel p. engardio.

  writer, documentary filmmaker.

  blood transfusions and jehovah's witnesses make dramatic stories.

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  MrMonroe

  This double talk was also discussed by Oregon bioethicist Osamu Muramoto in his article, "Bioethics of the refusal of blood by Jehovah's Witnesses, part 3" in the Journal of Medical Ethics, 1999 (Google it if you want to read all his fascinating and forthright papers on the subject). He noted that a public agreement was made in March 1998 between the WTS and the Bulgarian government at the European Commission of Human Rights. In the agreement, the WTS declared that its members "have free choice" to receive blood transfusions "without any control or sanction on the part of the association".

  Futher on in his paper, Muramoto wrote:

  A WTS official in (a subsequent) BBC interview argued that a JW who accepts blood would never be automatically disfellowshipped. If he expresses remorse and repentance before a judicial committee, he will not be punished with the most severe religious sanction. He also argued that unrepentant JWs who received blood are disfellowshipped not because of the fact that they received blood, but because they abandoned the doctrine of the religious organisation.

  Muramoto points out the hypocrisy in the statement: the end result for any JW who exercises his "free choice" and chooses to accept blood is expulsion and shunning. A JW on the talk page of the Wikipedia article on Jehovah's Witnesses has similarly argued that Witnesses are free to choose on the issue of transfusions. This is clearly the new party line for the public, but it's a hollow claim indeed when anyone who makes a choice contrary to WTS teaching is booted out.
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  30

  Let's Watch How We Walk (A jw email I just got today)

  by Tired of the Hypocrisy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is it based on anything else out on the net and redone to fit the jws?.

  good example of how our conscience should be trained by jah!

  let's watch how we walk.

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  MrMonroe

  I've heard two urban myths delivered from the platform as "experiences" ... an elder who introduced a meeting with a fabulous experience he'd just heard about a man who saw a car broken down by the side of the road ... lent the driver a tyre ... had a call from his bank manager .... home loan has been paid off by a benefactor ... "you have friends in high places" .... it was Bill Gates he'd helped. I checked Snopes when I got home and that story had been going round since the 1930s and Howard Hughes was the earlier benefactor.

  At a circuit assembly in Queensland I heard a tale of a Gold Coast pioneer couple who saw a Mercedes being advertised in the paper for $10 ... it was the wife of a philanderer whose husband told her she could sell the car and give him half the proceeds ... the pioneers picked up the car for $10 and were obviously blessed by Jehovah. I moved to New Zealand where I was amazed to hear an identical experience had happened in Auckland, with the exception that this time it was $20 and the car was a BMW. The audience lapped it all up and clapped like performing seals.

  I always wondered how many of those experiences were either invented or recycled urban myths. Thank God (again) for the internet.
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  52

  THE FINAL VERDICT IS DELIVERED!!!

  by Hobo Ken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is the final of my series of podcasts in which the 3 circuit overseers decide my fate as a jehovah's witness.. my blog- deathorobedience.blogspot.com.

  podcast 12 the final verdict- play the audio.

  also available free on itunes (just search on itunes).. .

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  MrMonroe

  It went a little something like this "Ok, Matt, let's put aside the compelling evidence that the decision to disfellowship you for saying Jesus is to be worshipped was a miscarraige of theocratic justice. So, how do you believe "faithful slave" is being used by Jehovah on earth today?" -- that's all they care about.

  That's so true. A year ago my wife and I spent an uncomfortable few days with friends of ours interstate where we knew the issue of our decision to stop going to meetings would be raised. And it was, in a heated, very emotional and very long discussion, although we were resolute in our decision not to give him any reason why we left. We wanted to give him no ammunition. He could die wondering. And the weird thing was my good friend (or so he'd always been until our decision to withdraw from The Club) suddenly asked my wife, "Do you believe Jehovah is using the faithful and discreet slave as his organization on earth today?" It was such an insanely loaded question, brimming with assumptions and dangers, that it stopped us short. My wife stalled for time and I managed to change the subject and he never came back for an answer.

  I have never stopped thinking about the question. Where did he get it from? Had someone suggested he ask it? It's a carefully framed question designed to trap. (Is there a "faithful and discreet slave"? Does God use "an organization"? If he does, who says it's the WTS?) Is this a question elders are instructed to ask?
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  44

  Watchtower May 15,2010 "Brothers Sow to the Spirit and Reach out"

  by hoser in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  looks like they're almost begging for elders and ms's.

  take a fresh look.

  the need for overseers and ministerial servants is greater today than ever before.we.

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  MrMonroe

  I recall moving to a new congregation after having "served" as an MS in my previous one. I was working Saturdays, so I could do "only" an hour of witnessing Saturday mornings before I had to leave for my job. Sundays was never much fun because the pioneers all teamed up and left me to work with the smelly old women who had nothing else to do with their life. My monthly total was about eight hours. One arrogant young elder asked me if I was keen on becoming an MS again. I told him, sure ... I did actually like to help people in the congregation. He told me, "Well, if eight hours a month is all you can do, you're really wasting your time, because it's not enough."

  It was actually a revealing, and ultimately helpful, response. I immediately decided that if I was wasting my time spending eight hours a month annoying people at the doors, I could just as easily waste only an hour a month and claim I was doing two. I never reported more than five hours a month from that day. It was one of those eye-opening moments that, looking back, helped to pave the way for my eventual exit.
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  27

  Silent Lambs in Wikipedia to be deleted

  by Gerard in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are a couple of jw zealots campaingning in wikipedia to delete the silent lambs article.

  i'd like to request your editing time in order to search for additional references to be included and make their censoring task imposible.

  thanks.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/silentlambs.

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  MrMonroe

  There are a couple of books I have with references to Silent Lambs. I'll add those, which will help. The claim so far is that it is biased and without any JW defence to add balance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me the person who listed it for deletion hasn't done it properly, so it doesn't show up on the daily log of articles for deletion, hence it won't actually come up for a decision. It may take another day or two for someone to realize, which provides extra time to come up with the goods.
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  26

  Why Are They Called Privileges?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  seems like work to me....... doing the microphones, manning the magazine counter, spending countless (sorry, counted) hours every month knocking on doors.. privileges?.

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  MrMonroe

  The goofy brothers doing announcements at my old congo loved to call it a "fine privilege" when they named the book study group assigned to clean the hall on Saturdays. The meaning was clear that it was God's house and we were somehow performing a sacred work by squirting Windex on perfectly clean windows, wiping non-existent dust off window sills and flat areas and vacuuming pristine carpets until enough time had passed. Why then did our hearts all sink when we discovered it was OUR turn for the fine privilege?

  I especially enjoyed the privilege of joining the cleaning team at Rod Laver Arena in Melbourne for the district conventions, where we busied ourselves squirting windex on handrails and door handles and wiping them clean twice a day. It's a wonder they didn't ask us to polish the urinals as well. Half, no 99 per cent, of the exercise was to show visitors how clean and pure we were and therefore how clean and pure the New World would be when it was in the hands of the Worldwide Confederation of Elders.

  One pompous prat in my congregation prepared a detailed roster of who would handle mics in what part of the hall and what days. It wasn't unusual for him to collar you as you walked in and tell you where to sit to handle a certain mic. My wife suffered a health problem a few years ago and was having to run to the toilet for the next week or two, but we faithfully went to the meeting the following Sunday with the intention of sitting in the back row so she could exit discreetly if she needed to go. Brother Pompous strutted up to me and barked, "Front row, left!" I was already stressed and said to him, "No, we'll be sitting in the back today." He snarled, "Thank you for your co-operation, brother!" and started to turn away. I whirled around and told him I didn't appreciate smart-arses and he should keep his sarcasm to himself. He gave me a wide berth after that.
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  41

  Please help? My sis has been summoned to a JC without a prior meeting.

  by creativhoney in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  they have caught up with my sis, they want her to come to a meeting on monday.

  she says she is going to just go and blag.

  - even attend a few meetings if necessary.

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  MrMonroe

  I haven't been through the DG saga, but my guess is if they say they do have witnesses who'll testify that you were spreading "apostasy" they have them. As much as the Watchtower myths claim that the DFing experience brought straying Witnesses bacvk to the fold because they realised how much they'd lost, it may well work the other way ... if your family sees you bumped, they may well see the injustice and tyranny of it and start to think themselves about how devoted they are to the WT rules. And if friends are lying to you, or you fear you're going to lose them when you're DFd, then they're best dropped anyway. Your new boyfriend is proof that there's life and better friendships outside the cult.