Posts by MrMonroe

20

Disassociation...is it to much hassle? Please advise as need help. Thanks

by Me Myself and I in

hi guys,.

thank you for the warm welcome to the forum boards after years of just looking and reading.. i have been impressed by the many comments that have followed the introduction of dontplaceliterature and the balanced, humourus and individual views of the brothers and sisters (we are all human beings so as far as i am concerned no matter what religious persuasion we are all one family!

) that have replied with both candid and honest and often heartfelt comments.. i have started a topic and will give the reason for asking first, so anyone can skip the "getting to know me" bit.. i am currently wondering as a baptised member of the org, who hasnt attended either meetings or memorial in the last 4 years.

MrMonroe

Your experience on joining mirrors mine very closely. I had questions to which I wanted answers, and the answers they gave me (and the subsequent study of the Live Forever book) answered those perfectly. They did all fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, and I was very impressed with the internal cohesion of the Bible and how it seemed to unlock the Bible.

Some of this, I now realise, was because of the way the NWT has been translated to support pre-existing WTS doctrines. Other teachings now seem less cohesive after reading other books that highlight scriptures that directly contradict WTS teachings (WTS books downplay those inconsistencies or contradictions and because we want to believe, we do).

Only later did I see how much of the fundamental WTS teachings are based on a grab-bag of assumptions and chronological and historical inaccuracies (never acknowledged in WTS literature, so therefore a hurdle one never needs to face). Robert Crompton's "Counting the Days to Armageddon" is a very detailed analysis of the origin of WTS eschatology and is quite an eye-opener to how the WTS arrived at dates and beliefs that are now taken as truth and a basis of their beliefs.

Why is that only Witnesses view Armageddon as God's impending war on the "world"? (It was Rutherford's conception, one cobbled together with an assortment of texts that created the patchwork he wanted).
Why is that Witnesses believe God wants Christians to know his timetable for the "end times"? (Russell was convinced that, like the Da Vinci code, God had hidden such "truths" in the Bible for later discovery by a select few).
Why is that Witnesses believe only they will be saved at Armageddon and that one must be associated with the WTS to survive (That was Rutherford's teaching).
Why do Witnesses think it is so important to be different and limit their interaction with non-Witnesses (Rutherford and Knorr's teachings).

If the congregation has lost interest in you, I wouldn't bother disassociating. If there are some who maintain contact and you wish to send out a signal, then go ahead, but as already stated, they will then place a label on you and dismiss you as a loser, a victim of apostate teachings. Why give them that satisfaction?

17

Jehovah can change science...(when I asked my mom about 'Paradise')

by Joliette in

me and mom was having a conversation over breakfast a few weeks ago, and she brought up the circuit assembly that she just the brothers warned about apostates and going on 'questionable' internet sites.

we started talking about heaven and 'the generation' change.

i told her how could a paradise happen when science prove otherwise.

MrMonroe

Jehovah can change science, just like he can change immutable truths. He does not, however, appreciate it when others say immutable truths have changed, even if later Jehovah decides they were right and he was wrong. Anyone who claims immutable truths are wrong is an apostate and must therefore die at Armageddon. Even if Jehovah later changes his mind, they must still die at Armageddon, just to prove that they were wrong at the time. It should serve as a lesson about thinking about things too much.

37

Australian Convention Pioneer family Experience - We found our vegetables in the gutter..why do they wanna be Martyrs?

by Witness 007 in

a couple years ago district convention - a pioneer family with two kids explained how they had ran out of funds and had no dinner...as they turned the corner out witnessing they saw a vegetable truck had spilled some produce in the gutter and so "jehovah provided in our time of need..." i felt like yelling get a job you bum stop starving!!

not encouraging.

this week an elder with pnemonia discharges himself from hospital, promising to remain home...so he can go out preaching!

MrMonroe

Fortuitous things happen to people, good and bad, every day of the year. When they happen to Witnesses it's a blessing from Jehovah.

I have known Witnesses who died in motor accidents, lost their money in failed investment schemes, had their houses wrecked by home invaders, suffered fires at their business, were diagnosed with cancer and ended up childless, miserable and renting their home in their old age because of being obedient to the society. How does that fit in to the belief in Jehovah's watchful oversight?

67

WT Society's Paranoia Over Spiral Binding of Elder's Textbook - Crazy

by flipper in

jw
friends

this letter was sent as an addendum to the elders regarding their latest elders textbook.

i think you'll find this interesting and also disconcerting as well.. to all bodies of elders.

re: spiral binding of shepherding textbook.

MrMonroe

The level of control is mind-boggling. It's an extension of the arbitrary rule-making that goes on at every level of the organization, with information on even the most trivial matters released on a strictly need-to-know basis. I guess it gives all these petty-minded elders an elevated sense of importance.

Still, I can look up the statutes and laws of my state, the detailed road rules, and read them and modify my behavior accordingly. It is very puzzling why the WTS would want to keep these simple procedural rules, which determined whether members are "approved" or "not approved", so secret.

37

Australian Convention Pioneer family Experience - We found our vegetables in the gutter..why do they wanna be Martyrs?

by Witness 007 in

a couple years ago district convention - a pioneer family with two kids explained how they had ran out of funds and had no dinner...as they turned the corner out witnessing they saw a vegetable truck had spilled some produce in the gutter and so "jehovah provided in our time of need..." i felt like yelling get a job you bum stop starving!!

not encouraging.

this week an elder with pnemonia discharges himself from hospital, promising to remain home...so he can go out preaching!

MrMonroe

When living in Brisbane I heard a fanciful tale about a Gold Coast pioneer couple buying a Porsche that was advertised for $100 after seeing it in the classifieds. A couple of years later, living in New Zealand, I heard the same story about an Auckland couple buying a Mercedes for $50 after seeing it advertised in the classifieds. It was an identical story, with only the minor details changed. As it turned out, the tale is an urban legend, which Snopes.com says dates back to at least 1948. Read it here. I have also heard the urban myth of the mysterious millionaire benefactor, related here, delivered breathlessly from the platform before the opening of the public talk in Brisbane, allegedly as an experience a brother heard in a letter.

21

Why GB does not want couples to have children?

by faqs7719 in

jw
friends

i was thinking the other day about this.

i guess you have seen many couples who have not had children.

the main reason given is that it is difficult to raise children in the last days.

MrMonroe

That's very funny. I remember an elder's wife recalling her shock at seeing a movie in which there was a lovemaking scene and the woman was .... wait for it ... on top. I mean, can you imagine it? How perverted is that? What kind of animalistic behavior is that?

I pity those poor Witnesses who have been shocked into submission by the Society about what they can and cannot do in their own beds with their own spouses. They fear that God is watching them with every move they make, and that the dutiful spouse will let the elders know if tongues or fingers drift into places where they ought not go.

A female friend (an ex-Witness) told of a conversation she'd had with another female friend (ex-Witness) who'd split from her dimwit JW husband and spent the night with a male friend she'd subsequently become attached to. She was simply gushing about the sheer sensuality of it and told my friend, "I had no idea sex could be so good." What had she been missing out on? And is her experience amplified a thousand-fold in every Witness grouping?

17

Jehovah can change science...(when I asked my mom about 'Paradise')

by Joliette in

me and mom was having a conversation over breakfast a few weeks ago, and she brought up the circuit assembly that she just the brothers warned about apostates and going on 'questionable' internet sites.

we started talking about heaven and 'the generation' change.

i told her how could a paradise happen when science prove otherwise.

MrMonroe

Joliette, I'm afraid you're wrong. Jehovah sometimes decides to change his mind. For a while he thought "higher authorities" were governments, then he decided they weren't, and let the faithful and discreet slave know this. Then he thought again and had to let the FDS know that he'd gone back to square one.

He has also rethought the concepts of "generation", blood fractions, oral sex, alternative service for conscription, the last days, the separating of sheep and goats, the shutoff date for the heavenly calling ... and, to his great credit, has kept the slave class informed of his adjusted thoughts.

He WAS contemplating resetting the last days to begin in 1957, but rethought that; he let slip to SOME of the anointed a thought that the "other sheep" were just the Gentiles, but pulled back on that one and was a bit annoyed that those anointed went ahead and talked about it.

Look, Jehovah does change his mind, OK? And if he decides those immutable laws of science need to bend a bit when he wants, he'll do it. Bugger gravity. Bugger the consistency of time. Bugger tectonic plates. Bugger the dietary habits of carnivores. Bugger the consequences of, say, falling from a great height or swallowing arsenic in the new system.

I'm with your mum on this one. Like Roger Waters says, What God wants, God gets.

21

Why GB does not want couples to have children?

by faqs7719 in

jw
friends

i was thinking the other day about this.

i guess you have seen many couples who have not had children.

the main reason given is that it is difficult to raise children in the last days.

MrMonroe

Designs, you didn't offer to do their dirty work for them? "Here I am, call me!"

15

1951-1969 Awake PDFs!

by Atlantis in

note: update 2017-08-07 - most of the links in this thread are long-dead so have been removed, please contact atlantis if you need these documents.. new files for the awakes from 1951-1956. credit goes to bereanbiblestudent.. 1951 awake, 1952 awake, 1953 awake, 1954 awake, 1955 awake, 1956 awake.

awake files posted in an earlier post.

credit goes to cabasilas:.

MrMonroe

Thanks Atlantis. I've hunted for some of these in the past.

35

New exJW Pamphlet to leave with Bible Studies

by jwfacts in

recently someone asked for a pamphlet to leave with a neighbour that started studying with jws.

i noticed that they was not a lot available, so have put together something.

please let me know your opinion and any errors.

MrMonroe

Paul, it's excellent. From a huge source of material, you've chosen some very good quotes.

Two suggestions:

1. You have referred to the fate of born-ins who decide to quit, but not those who join as adults. If the intended audience of the pamphlet is people who are studying with the Witnesses (or being urged to do so) the pamphlet should make clear that once baptised, individuals must obey all dictates of the religion. Those who may later choose to leave and formally resign are shunned; those who simply cease association but breach the religion's rules on conduct may, even years later, subsequently be questioned by a judicial hearing and disfellowshipped and shunned.

That was never spelled out to me when I joined! It may come as a shock to prospective members that once they've joined -- as sociologist Andrew Holden has pointed out -- those who later choose to leave "are seldom allowed a dignified exit."

2. The reference to blood transfusions needs to say "... Witnesses die, having to refuse blood transfusions on the basis of the religion's interpretation of a scriptural admonition to avoid eating blood".

A few minor points: "Is this truth?": (a) I'm not sure the reference to the Witnesses being an "eschatological" religion means much. (b) "The Watchtower" is not a religion. (c) "What affect" should be "what effect".