Posts by MrMonroe

50

JC question: Do you accept the FDS as God's organization?

by MrMonroe in

my wife and i had stopped going to meetings in april; in december of that year we travelled interstate and stayed with the witness couple who had "brought me into the truth".

we had already told them we'd quit meetings and there was a certain tension in the air for the first couple of days until sunday morning, when, over a breakfast that eventually lasted several hours, they began to interrogate us about why we had left.

had we been stumbled?

MrMonroe

Happy to re-send, but I'll have to wait till I'm back on my home computer!

50

JC question: Do you accept the FDS as God's organization?

by MrMonroe in

my wife and i had stopped going to meetings in april; in december of that year we travelled interstate and stayed with the witness couple who had "brought me into the truth".

we had already told them we'd quit meetings and there was a certain tension in the air for the first couple of days until sunday morning, when, over a breakfast that eventually lasted several hours, they began to interrogate us about why we had left.

had we been stumbled?

MrMonroe

That's settled then. Is this a common bug?

Anyway, I'll return to the Real Dolls thread. You learn something new every day ...

50

JC question: Do you accept the FDS as God's organization?

by MrMonroe in

my wife and i had stopped going to meetings in april; in december of that year we travelled interstate and stayed with the witness couple who had "brought me into the truth".

we had already told them we'd quit meetings and there was a certain tension in the air for the first couple of days until sunday morning, when, over a breakfast that eventually lasted several hours, they began to interrogate us about why we had left.

had we been stumbled?

MrMonroe

That's weird. I'm at work now using IE and my question (the first post in this thread, posted at home on Firefox) appears to have morphed into a reply by 3Mozzies. The second half of the post has disappeared.

50

JC question: Do you accept the FDS as God's organization?

by MrMonroe in

my wife and i had stopped going to meetings in april; in december of that year we travelled interstate and stayed with the witness couple who had "brought me into the truth".

we had already told them we'd quit meetings and there was a certain tension in the air for the first couple of days until sunday morning, when, over a breakfast that eventually lasted several hours, they began to interrogate us about why we had left.

had we been stumbled?

MrMonroe

@Broken Promises: Mr Monroe is not 3Mozzies. MrMonroe messaged 3Mozzies. 3Mozzies indicated he had received MrMonroe's PM and would respond later.

4

interesting item on the 2010CDlibrary

by Aussie Oz in

i just installed, and as i hoped, it didn't overwrite the 2008 version i had.. i did notice that the first page up gives me not only the text for the day but also the weeks theocratic ministry school and service meeting parts.. just in case anyone wanted to know.... oz.

.

MrMonroe

Did you download the library or install the disc? I still can't find the 2010 library online.

52

Assembly Day Points by a Member of the Governing Body

by Reopened Mind in

jw
friends

a jw friend of mine sent me this email today:.

assembly day points...... .

brother morris, (member of the governing body).

MrMonroe

So some diligent Witnesses' assembly day notes have gone viral? Extraordinary. They'll be turning up as an experience at an assembly day next year, mark my words!

50

JC question: Do you accept the FDS as God's organization?

by MrMonroe in

my wife and i had stopped going to meetings in april; in december of that year we travelled interstate and stayed with the witness couple who had "brought me into the truth".

we had already told them we'd quit meetings and there was a certain tension in the air for the first couple of days until sunday morning, when, over a breakfast that eventually lasted several hours, they began to interrogate us about why we had left.

had we been stumbled?

MrMonroe

My wife and I had stopped going to meetings in April; in December of that year we travelled interstate and stayed with the Witness couple who had "brought me into the truth". We had already told them we'd quit meetings and there was a certain tension in the air for the first couple of days until Sunday morning, when, over a breakfast that eventually lasted several hours, they began to interrogate us about WHY we had left. Had we been stumbled? It's not about the people, you know! Well, we said, that's our private decision. We left, we're not going back, but we'd rather not discuss our reasons.

It was a session I described in my diary as the Breakfast Grill. They told me there was a Watchtower that very day was addressed at our very situation, about how Jesus cares for his lost sheep, and they assured me that when we returned to Melbourne, we would surely have contact from our old congregation. Stirred up by the timely article, those loving, concerned brothers would definitiely inquire after our spiritual wellbeing. If he was a gambling man, he'd put money on it. Rubbish, I told them. They'll attend the Watchtower study, answer the questions and give us no thought at all. It's a Watchtower study, just words on a page. That's the way it is. I didn't want them to visit in any case: we'd made a definite decision to leave, based on very firm grounds.

And so on they went, hour after hour, tears in their eyes as they grieved for our loss. OUR loss! But then there was curious question.

He looked my wife in the eye and asked her,

"Do you believe Jehovah is using the faithful and discreet slave as his organisation on earth?”

My wife paused. How the hell do you answer that question? The answer, of course, was , No, absolutely not. I jumped in and deflected and quickly the question was forgotten.

But I've never forgotten that question. Why did he ask it? It's a loaded question, a bit like a Witness being asked by a householder, "Do you accept the divinity of Christ, yes or no?" Well, there's a trap, because it depends on your definition.

His question assumes several things:

1. God has an organization (which is an interpretation peculiar to the Witnesses).

2. If he does have one, it is the Watch Tower Society. (Please God, no!)

3. The faithful and discreet slave is more than just a figure in a parable: it is a "class" of Christians as Russell decided. (Again, among all religions, only the Witnesses have decided that parabolic figure represents a group of Christians who would be represented in the last days).

4. If the Watch Tower Society is indeed God's organization, the faithful and discreet slave "class" actually plays a role. (There is no evidence that those 11,200 self-professed anointed scattered throughout the globe play any role in the formation of doctrine or direction of the beliefs or activities of Witnesses. As Ray Franz pointed out, they mean nothing, zilch, to the Governing Body).

So why did he ask it? Did someone suggest it to him? Reading threads on this forum, and listening to the recordings at the Death or Obedience blog, it seems this is a question commonly asked at judicial committees. I searched in the "Shepherd the Flock of God" book for a suggestion that elders ask the question, and couldn't find it. Is there some unwritten convention that elders ask that question of those they suspect are apostates, searching for the evidence that would allow them to disfellowship them? Because answering in the negative is an immediate confession that one is no longer a believer, no longer under the spell of the Watch Tower Society.

Have you ever been asked that question? Do elders share it among themselves as the $64,000 question? Why did he ask it?

19

Millions Now Living Will Never Die----Where Does That Come From?

by cameo-d in

isn't that wt's calling card?

isn't that how it all started?

where does this phrase "millions now living will never die" come from?

MrMonroe

He first gave the talk in 1918; the book was published in 11 languages in 1920, became a best-seller and promoted with a major world tour and newspaper ads. See Wikipedia reference here. Sadly, of the millions alive in 1918 to hear that promise, very few still survive. It was a bold statement, but once again quite untrue. And Rutherford, of course, was himself dead within 25 years.

20

Disassociation...is it to much hassle? Please advise as need help. Thanks

by Me Myself and I in

hi guys,.

thank you for the warm welcome to the forum boards after years of just looking and reading.. i have been impressed by the many comments that have followed the introduction of dontplaceliterature and the balanced, humourus and individual views of the brothers and sisters (we are all human beings so as far as i am concerned no matter what religious persuasion we are all one family!

) that have replied with both candid and honest and often heartfelt comments.. i have started a topic and will give the reason for asking first, so anyone can skip the "getting to know me" bit.. i am currently wondering as a baptised member of the org, who hasnt attended either meetings or memorial in the last 4 years.

MrMonroe

Your experience on joining mirrors mine very closely. I had questions to which I wanted answers, and the answers they gave me (and the subsequent study of the Live Forever book) answered those perfectly. They did all fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, and I was very impressed with the internal cohesion of the Bible and how it seemed to unlock the Bible.

Some of this, I now realise, was because of the way the NWT has been translated to support pre-existing WTS doctrines. Other teachings now seem less cohesive after reading other books that highlight scriptures that directly contradict WTS teachings (WTS books downplay those inconsistencies or contradictions and because we want to believe, we do).

Only later did I see how much of the fundamental WTS teachings are based on a grab-bag of assumptions and chronological and historical inaccuracies (never acknowledged in WTS literature, so therefore a hurdle one never needs to face). Robert Crompton's "Counting the Days to Armageddon" is a very detailed analysis of the origin of WTS eschatology and is quite an eye-opener to how the WTS arrived at dates and beliefs that are now taken as truth and a basis of their beliefs.

Why is that only Witnesses view Armageddon as God's impending war on the "world"? (It was Rutherford's conception, one cobbled together with an assortment of texts that created the patchwork he wanted).
Why is that Witnesses believe God wants Christians to know his timetable for the "end times"? (Russell was convinced that, like the Da Vinci code, God had hidden such "truths" in the Bible for later discovery by a select few).
Why is that Witnesses believe only they will be saved at Armageddon and that one must be associated with the WTS to survive (That was Rutherford's teaching).
Why do Witnesses think it is so important to be different and limit their interaction with non-Witnesses (Rutherford and Knorr's teachings).

If the congregation has lost interest in you, I wouldn't bother disassociating. If there are some who maintain contact and you wish to send out a signal, then go ahead, but as already stated, they will then place a label on you and dismiss you as a loser, a victim of apostate teachings. Why give them that satisfaction?

17

Jehovah can change science...(when I asked my mom about 'Paradise')

by Joliette in

me and mom was having a conversation over breakfast a few weeks ago, and she brought up the circuit assembly that she just the brothers warned about apostates and going on 'questionable' internet sites.

we started talking about heaven and 'the generation' change.

i told her how could a paradise happen when science prove otherwise.

MrMonroe

Jehovah can change science, just like he can change immutable truths. He does not, however, appreciate it when others say immutable truths have changed, even if later Jehovah decides they were right and he was wrong. Anyone who claims immutable truths are wrong is an apostate and must therefore die at Armageddon. Even if Jehovah later changes his mind, they must still die at Armageddon, just to prove that they were wrong at the time. It should serve as a lesson about thinking about things too much.