In my time in the org I was always astonished at the ignorance of JWs about what was going on in the world around them. Few read the paper or had any understanding of what was happening in the country politically, and even those who did were afraid to express any opinion about it lest they be accused of being worldly. It's a bubble, a dome, and JWs are trapped in it.
MrMonroe
JoinedPosts by MrMonroe
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14
I just realized....
by Muddy Waters ini just realized i've basically lost the past 30 years of culture... listening to music, being rediscovered and discovering new music... political stuff happening around the world and yes, dammit, all that political stuff is important!!!
tons of other things that, thanks to the wts's very diligent application of the i part of the bite method (information control) i am only beginning to find out or discover.... .
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Ex-Apostate experiences?
by zound inexpanding on a point someone made in another thread:.
just wondering if anyone ever heard any experiences at assemblies or khalls of apostates that went back to become an upstanding jw.
or even just experiences related amongst jw's.
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MrMonroe
Desirous of Change, your feelings of anger over the betrayal you suffered mirrors my own sentiments after I left. My wife and kids and I all quit five years ago and I feel a great sense of embarrassment and humiliation over my gullibility and the fact that the trust I put in that organisation for more than 20 years was entirely misplaced. My anger has waned over the years, but I'm still very reluctant to admit to anyone I was part of such a web of lies and deception and delusion for so long without ever putting its claims to the test.
I was in several different congregations in Australia and New Zealand in my time, with many members and elders being very stupid and unthinking people, but in my final congregation there were some deep thinkers and astute men (elders included) and women. I find it difficult to believe that they are unaware of the truth about the religion they've been part of for so long. If they know what's going on, they are deserving of a special place in hell for being part of a process of deception and mind/behaviour control.
As to whether former apostates have come back ... isn't that Andre's experience?
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JW prayers
by Laika inlisten, i know many of you saw the word 'prayer' in the thread title and are just itching to write a post about how prayer never works, sorry to disappoint, but whether or not prayer works is not the point of this post.. jws do believe that prayer works, and as such, what they tend to pray about is, i think, quite revealing about their general attitudes toward other people.. i have heard thousands of public prayers by jws, some of you may have heard tens of thousands.
i obviously cannot remember them all, but my experience tells me that never, or at least rarely (i guess there are always exceptions to the rule) would a jw pray for the solution of a general problem such as asking jehovah to help the homeless, asking jehovah to bring peace in a wartorn country, or asking jehovah to bring about fairness to the oppressed, except as such problems may effect other jws, or except by means of 'the kingdom', which is supposed to solve said problems by wiping out all those suffering them.
they may pray for direct help for members of the congregation going through major problems, but i rarely hear a jw offer to say a personal prayer for someone going through a hard time.
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MrMonroe
As with much of the JW religion, public prayers were all about being seen by others to be pious and righteous and supportive of the organisation. When I was asked to pray from the platform, I was quite sincere in what I asked, but from memory it was about making us better people, closer to Jesus' example and more agreeable to Jehovah. Others doing the prayer would also "ask a blessing" and "a portion of your spirit" (a nonsense statement) to be with the GB and the FDS in order that they continue to keep up the spiritual feeding, although really it must have irritated God that they kept on asking him to keep the anointed up to date with new light when apparently they had no more ability to receive new light than me or my infant daughters did.
We prayed for "our brothers" who were in distress somewhere, anywhere in the world, but you're exactly right that as far as JW public prayers were concerned the rest of the world -- starving billions, earthquake victims, the powerless citizens living under the North Korean regime of insanity, the depressed, the ill -- could all go to hell. Unless they accept a Bible study, JWs (and God) don't give them much of a second thought.
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Insightful quote on blind devotion ... but what was it exactly?
by MrMonroe ini have the feeling it was ray franz who wrote it, but search as hard as i can, i can't find it!.
there is a quote in the pile of books i have about the jws that says something along the line of ... it's forgiveable that you may be sucked in to something you come to believe in, but there is no excuse for refusing to ask questions and discover the truth about something.. it was obviously applied to the blinkered view most jws have about their organisation, therefore it is very hard to have sympathy for them being trapped in a high-control cult.
they have the option to examine opposing views and put them to the test, but simply refuse to entertain such thoughts.. it was a succinct, punchy quote; it was probably ray franz, but could have been jim penton, don cameron or james beverley.
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MrMonroe
I have the feeling it was Ray Franz who wrote it, but search as hard as I can, I can't find it!
There is a quote in the pile of books I have about the JWs that says something along the line of ... it's forgiveable that you may be sucked in to something you come to believe in, but there is no excuse for refusing to ask questions and discover the truth about something.
It was obviously applied to the blinkered view most JWs have about their organisation, therefore it is very hard to have sympathy for them being trapped in a high-control cult. They have the option to examine opposing views and put them to the test, but simply refuse to entertain such thoughts.
It was a succinct, punchy quote; it was probably Ray Franz, but could have been Jim Penton, Don Cameron or James Beverley. Anyone know it??
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Transcript of Rutherford et al vs United States (appeal) 1919
by MrMonroe injim penton's book apocalypse delayed has an intriguing reference at pg.
323 to testimony jf rutherford gave in 1918 (though he may have erred there with regard to the date).. he wrote that the proclaimers book contained a number of "outright falsehoods that have become part of watch tower mythology.
it argues, as have many watch tower publications in the past, that the reason jf rutherford drove four watch tower society directors from office in july 1917 is that they opposed the publication of the book the finished mystery, which he had personally authorised.
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MrMonroe
Witness My Fury, your link was exactly what I was after.
It's a trivial point to anyone not interested in the rich history of the WTS around the time of Russell's death, but actually quite important in underlining the level of deceit and manipulation Rutherford used to seize and maintain control of the society despite the wishes of the majority of the board of directors -- in effect, the governing body. The issue here is whether the four directors who were getting fed up with Rutherford opposed the publication of The Finished Mystery, as the Proclaimers book states. Rutherford in this court case explains how no one outside the executive committee, in fact, knew of its publication.
From that transcript (pg 981):
(During direct examination of Rutherford)
Q: And I think he said something as to the purpose in concealing the fact that the seventh volume of The Finished Mystery was going to be published. What is the fact in reference to that?
A: No purpose in the world to conceal the fact that it was going to be published. The reason of it was this. We had considerable difficulty at that time in our society.
Q: Was that difficulty over The Finished Mystery?
A: It was not. Did not include The Finished Mystery in the slightest.
Q: The Finished Mystery at that time had not become the subject of any discussion among any of the members?
A: No sir, had not discussed it with a single person in the society at the time this trouble started.
On pg 982 he explains the lengths he went to to ensure all members of the society received the book in the mail the same day.
On page 1037:
"The four mentioned here had been disgruntled about other matters, they had nothing with reference to the seventh volume. The matter was never intimated."
(He then explains from p. 1038 how the four "disgruntled" directors had tied up society funds, insisting they have approval over disbursements. When a $5000 cheque was received from a Mr Butterfield for the publication of the book, Rutherford banked it in his own account rather than the society's, to ensure the directors could not stop the publication of the book.)
What's clear from Rutherford's testimony is that the four opposing directors -- a majority of the board of directors -- were apparently unaware of the impending publication of the book. Hence the WTS glee that its release on July 17 was a "bombshell". Hence not only is the Proclaimers statement clearly a lie, but Rutherford patently defied the wishes of the governing body as it was then, pushing ahead with his own agenda, fuelled by ego, vanity and a naked belief that he was God's chosen man.
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Transcript of Rutherford et al vs United States (appeal) 1919
by MrMonroe injim penton's book apocalypse delayed has an intriguing reference at pg.
323 to testimony jf rutherford gave in 1918 (though he may have erred there with regard to the date).. he wrote that the proclaimers book contained a number of "outright falsehoods that have become part of watch tower mythology.
it argues, as have many watch tower publications in the past, that the reason jf rutherford drove four watch tower society directors from office in july 1917 is that they opposed the publication of the book the finished mystery, which he had personally authorised.
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MrMonroe
Jim Penton's book Apocalypse Delayed has an intriguing reference at pg. 323 to testimony JF Rutherford gave in 1918 (though he may have erred there with regard to the date).
He wrote that the Proclaimers book contained a number of "outright falsehoods that have become part of Watch Tower mythology. It argues, as have many Watch Tower publications in the past, that the reason JF Rutherford drove four Watch Tower Society directors from office in July 1917 is that they opposed the publication of the book The Finished Mystery, which he had personally authorised. In fact this is an outright lie, as is clearly shown by Rutherford's own statements made in court under oath in 1918."
His footnote at that point cites Rutherford et al. v. The United States, Transcript of Record, 1: 981-2 at 2943-5.
The appeal of Rutherford et al vs the United States was, I think, 1919, not 1918, but there seems to be nothing online that contains a copy of that transcript, even just those two pages Penton cites.
Penton doesn't elaborate on what it was Rutherford did say there in the appeal. My guess is that Rutherford in court confirmed that the opposing directors who he had in 1917 removed from office were not even aware the book was being prepared, so therefore could not have opposed it.
Does anyone have a scan of that part of the transcript?
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Shunning a myth says jw spokesman
by doofdaddy inhttp://www.theage.com.au/national/jehovahs-witnesses-a-cruel-cult-20130315-2g5x3.htmlit's hotting up in australia regarding cults, especially tax free like jws but how is the response of vin toole (the australian wts legal mouth piece) regarding shunning!.
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MrMonroe
The key to Vin Toole's comment -- and thinking -- is his statement that "Baptised members who drift away are not treated badly." Like all JWs who practise doublethink, he thinks that if people leave, they should go quietly, hiding their change in outlook and telling no one of their complaints about the religion; then they'll be left in peace. To them, shunning is reserved for the trouble-makers who tell lies about the religion or try to induce others to follow them.
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Shunning a myth says jw spokesman
by doofdaddy inhttp://www.theage.com.au/national/jehovahs-witnesses-a-cruel-cult-20130315-2g5x3.htmlit's hotting up in australia regarding cults, especially tax free like jws but how is the response of vin toole (the australian wts legal mouth piece) regarding shunning!.
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MrMonroe
The "Slamming the door on Jehovah" is currently the 5th most popular article at The Age online, with almost 14,000 views.
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New YouTube video - Anthony Morris warns us against the horrors of higher education
by cedars inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzcneuuajvg.
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cedars.
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MrMonroe
More lies and distortions. "That's ridiculous! We're not against education!" (After which he proceeds to prove they are against education).
The sort of reasoning employed by a brother I once witnessed with. An old guy watched us stroll down his driveway and said, "If you're here to talk about religion, I'm not interested!" The brother said, "No, we're not here for that" and proceeded to open the Bible and start his "topic for converation". The guy got very impatient and asked us to leave.
I said to the brother as we left, "Uh, why did you tell him we weren't there to talk about religion?" He said, "It's not about religion. It's about the Bible."
These sorts of warnings are given by an organization that knows nothing about the thing they're warning against. In the '80s elders and COs used to give dire warnings about going to gyms because they said everyone just goes there to look at themselves in big mirrors.
Thanks for the vid. What a sickening lecture.
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JW Elder Talks About the Aurora Victims - This is Quite Sick
by God_Delusion inhi guys & gals,.
the news about the aurora victims has spread worldwide and even in tiny cyprus do our hearts go out to the victims families.. .
unfortunately, the watchtower society doesn't see it that way.. .
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MrMonroe
Sick, sick sick. Once again it's a self-congratuatory, self-validating statement that proves that:
1. The rest of the world is evil.
2. Everyone who died deserved it because why the hell would anyone be watching a movie at midnight anyway?
Rotten bastards. It is truy sick that these people gain comfort and satisfaction from the suffering of others. Love for neighbour? Bullshit. They despise them. No, they envy them.