I remember reading somewhere that the wine would kill germs [like from the plague or something] and that grape juice wouldn't so the non-catholics would get sick more often in the dark ages.
Anyone ever hear such things before?
Posts by TTWSYF
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25Did Jesus make wine or grape juice
by jam inproverbs 23;31-33, commands, "do not look on the wine when it is red,.
when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly.
bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder (viper).
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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TTWSYF
For the record, I'm not pushing the Trinity to convert anyone to become 'A TRINITARIAN'. I am mearly giving true scriptural examples of some of the numerous texts that support the idea that there is more to God than the singular expression that we use in the English language. And forgive me for repeating myself from earlier posts, but in Hebrew there are two words for 'one'. One word [yachid] is singular and the other ['echad] usually means a combination of things like morning and evening became one ['echad] day. It is in this way that the Jewish Shcma' [Deut 6;4] reads "Hear, O Isreal: The Lord our God is one ['echad] Lord"
http://biblos.com/deuteronomy/6-4.htm
Of course, Still Thinking, Designs, Wont Leave, and plenty of others make very valid points. Believe it or not, I have more in common with you guys than you may realize. But, I am a Catholic, who left after reading the 'Should you believe in the trinity booklet' . I then returned, several years later through grace granted to me, from Jesus Christ himself and I was born again [although, not 'a born again'] It is a great question that TEC threw out earlier when she said that she can't get over Jesus saying that 'the Father is greater than I'. Of course there is so much to sift through just reading the bible that you cannot take words and phrases and twist them to suit your own tastes. Please know that I know that. That's why I am only giving scriptural examples.
It is in scripture that Jesus had to humble himself, 'he had to empty himself of his glory' but not his divinity. John 17;5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began"
Phil 2;6 In God's own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping.
or from Young's literal translation "who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,"
So, as I read what that actually says, I think out loud 'Who has glory in heaven?' A created being? I think of glory belonging to God, but I'd have to look that one up....after all, I'm just thinking out loud.
Jesus is the Father's only son, 'and the son can only do what the Father has shown him' That is true, I know, I've read it. But, I've also read John 16;15 when Jesus say 'All that the Father has is mine, therefore I said that He will take what is mine and declare it to you"
The Father is the head of Jesus and the husband is the head of the family, does that mean that you are greater than your wife? Does that mean that fathers are greater than their sons? Of course not, otherwise Adam would have been the greatest man ever, right?
When I read in scripture that Jesus is directly referred to as God, then I cannot deny that is what I read, can you?
Acts 4;12 referrign to Jesus"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
New International Version(©1984)
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.dc
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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TTWSYF
Great posts everybody! Tammy, you in particular. For my part, I have not tried to offend anyone with my posts, so if it happened,,,sorry.
Also, although I believe in the Trinity, I am not trying to make anyone else believe it. I've 'lurked' on this topic for several pages before posting any comments. I only wanted to show that scripture describes the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost [Spirit] as all having the attributes of God. [creation of heavens and earth, forgives sins, gives eternal life, worthy of worship, etc, etc] All of this IS in the bible.
It is also worth noting that the scriptures also show the 'personage' [personage? Is that even a word??]...ahem, the personage of the Holy Spirit. For example, the Holy Spirit is often called 'he'. He [the Holy Ghost] can be lied to [acts 5;3] , can speak [Acts10;19] , hear [john 16;13-15], teach[john 14;26], pray and intercede [rom 8;26], love [rom 15;30], guide [john 16;13], call [acts 13;2], be grieved [eph 4;30], feel hurt [is 63;10], be outraged [heb 10;29]. These are examples of the attributes of a person. What 'active force' could feel hurt and be outraged?
I also do not believe that you need a full understanding of the Trinity to be saved. I never wrote that. Scripture says that we are saved by the GRACE of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Men MUST go through Jesus to reach God. Amen?
respectfully,
dc
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17
So if God didn't mean a literal day when he said "Day," doesn't that mean the NWT isn't the most accurate translation?
by Pika_Chu inif the hebrew word rendered "day" has multiple meanings, why was the most accurate translation of the word not used?
why doesn't it say "eons" in the nwt?
if god really meant to say "eons," why didn't he make sure it said "eons" instead of days.
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TTWSYF
Now, compare that to the bible.
The Doctor (Jehovah) gives you the perscription (the bible)
you take it to the Governing Body mouthpiece and they interpret it for you in the publications (the pills)
You take the publications house to house. You don't get better. You get worse.
You are DF'd. You suddenly get better.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Great zing Terry!
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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TTWSYF
ohtaa-
Essence and Substance in the time of Aristotle and Socrates............
Designs- could you please be specific? I've read these comments from you before and you never give specific examples. I have no time to read through all of Aristotle and Socrates's extensive writtings. Can you please spell it out for us using phrases and pages?
Another scriptural [proof] text supporting that the Holy Ghost is God is in Mark 3;29 when the Holy Ghost is blasphemed.....Only God can be blasphemed, not an 'active force'.
respectfully,
dc
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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TTWSYF
Come on Designs, How about a specific example, after all, I should be able to drive a car through your examples, right?
Others have given scriptural examples, how about you?
respectfully,
dc
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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TTWSYF
It is not a matter of not understanding the doctrine, that's simple enough its the holes you can drive a car through that show it was just an invention by the Greek Bishops.
Designs, Any proof to that statement?
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So if God didn't mean a literal day when he said "Day," doesn't that mean the NWT isn't the most accurate translation?
by Pika_Chu inif the hebrew word rendered "day" has multiple meanings, why was the most accurate translation of the word not used?
why doesn't it say "eons" in the nwt?
if god really meant to say "eons," why didn't he make sure it said "eons" instead of days.
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TTWSYF
Who knows how long a day is in God's mind? Time is more of a human thing as we cannot grasp the concept of being 'out of time'. We cannot understand the concept of not having a beginning.
Like that line from the last Matrix 'everything that has a beginning Neo, has an end'
There is no such thing with God.
To discredit the 'accuracy' of the NWT, you need only to open your KIT [interliniar] and compare Col 1;16-17, John 8;58, Heb 1;6, Math 26;26, Mark 14;22, Luke 22;19, etc, etc.
The point that I'm making is that ........
YOU"RE RIGHT. THE NWT ISN"T VERY GOOD!!!
dc
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209
The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.
by whereami ingotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.
ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.
it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.
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TTWSYF
One trouble with the Trinity is the word 'Trinity'. It conjours up the association of paganism because of the word 'trinity'.
Trinity [the actual word] is not in the bible anywhere. fact.
The Trinity was not explicitly understood/explained until after the scriptures were written. fact.
Scripture indicates that there is a Trinity of beings who have the glory and power of God? fact. Some scriptural examples follow.
God raised Jesus from the dead, right? [gal1;1 says the Father raised Jesus, Romans 8;11 says the Holy Ghost raised Jesus, John 10;17-18 says that Jesus raised himself]
God dwells in believers [1cor 3;16-17] say the Father dwells in believers, [Romans 8;9] says that the Holy Ghost dwells in believers, [John 14;18] says that Jesus dwells in believers.
The Father searches the hearts and minds [Jer 17;10], The Holy Ghost searches the hearts and minds [1cor 2;10], Jesus searches the hearts and minds [Rev 2;23]
The Father gives us the words to speak [Math 10;19-20] Jesus gives us the words to speak [Luke 21;14-15] The Hoy Ghost gives us the words to speak [John 14;26]
Jesus commanded to be baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost [one name, 3 beings]
The only way to absorb the fullness of all scripture, without contridiction, is to acknowledge that there is more to God than we can understand and furthermore, this 'progressive revelation' of the nature of God will continue as it has since humanilty had first cried to God.
Just mho.
respectfully,
dc
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TTWSYF
dc