Posts by TTWSYF

59

John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2

by Wonderment in

continued from part 1 (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5097191899136000/john-1-1-colossians-1-16-all-other-things):.

the nw translation and some of its unique renderings, like john 1.1- "a god," and colossians 1.16 - "all other things," have been consistently at the top of the most debated topics here in this forum and elsewhere from the beginning.

the anger felt by detractors of the nwt rendering of john 1.1 (a god) has diminished considerably if compared to the furious debates surrounding the verse that raged on during the 1950 thru 1970s.

TTWSYF

Here's another analogy off the top of my head,[ yes, something that I made up or thought about]

The color white [or the color black] is made up of three primary colors [either reflective or not] These primary colors are RED, GREEN and BLUE. Each primary color compliments the other and work together to reflect the color image. If you took away a primary color or two, your image would be tinted differently. You would have a lessened color spectrum. One primary color isn't more or less important than another. The trinity could be explained in that way also to someone who isn't the brightest bulb or interested in learning about the Jewish God which is the Christian God.

59

John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2

by Wonderment in

continued from part 1 (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5097191899136000/john-1-1-colossians-1-16-all-other-things):.

the nw translation and some of its unique renderings, like john 1.1- "a god," and colossians 1.16 - "all other things," have been consistently at the top of the most debated topics here in this forum and elsewhere from the beginning.

the anger felt by detractors of the nwt rendering of john 1.1 (a god) has diminished considerably if compared to the furious debates surrounding the verse that raged on during the 1950 thru 1970s.

TTWSYF

Cofty, you would reject ANY explanation of the trinity. NO matter what anyone says, you would attack their position. The good news is that other people can see your angry replies too. I have explained [what I have learned in my journey] that God is described as a plural ONE in the Old testament.

Hebrew [the language of the OT] has 2 words for one. Yachid and Echad. A singular one, meaning only ONE. And a plural one, meaning that things come together for ONE. Examples that I had given included - Day and night come together as [ a plural] one day. Husband and wife come together as [ a plural] ONE flesh. 'God is one' is ALWAYS written in the old testament as a plural one. Very clearly and obviously, the God of the Jewish people is MORE than a singular one because that is how the Jews described him. Jews are awaiting God in the flesh as their savior, not an angel as their savior. Why, because that's what the OT says.

Your reply '-What's a plural God? That makes no sense.'

A plural one is a one that has more than one singular component. That is how the Jews described the oneness of God. Those are the words of scripture, not mine. Just trying to help you understand...if you wanted to. That's why [true] Christianity is compatible with the Old testament. The singular God of the Watchtower is inline with the Muslim [singular] God. Sorry, that's the facts.

No such thing as a trinity bible, only bible translations, with some considered much, much, much more legit than others.

Your challenge of describing the trinity is a way that isn't heretical is clearly described as a 3 dimensional being. A being [that we can observe] would have depth, height and width. Take away the depth and you have a 2 dimensional picture, like a tv screen or photo album....DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? Which words do you not understand?

Just asking...if you're interested in knowing or not . I'm thinking not

59

John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2

by Wonderment in

continued from part 1 (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5097191899136000/john-1-1-colossians-1-16-all-other-things):.

the nw translation and some of its unique renderings, like john 1.1- "a god," and colossians 1.16 - "all other things," have been consistently at the top of the most debated topics here in this forum and elsewhere from the beginning.

the anger felt by detractors of the nwt rendering of john 1.1 (a god) has diminished considerably if compared to the furious debates surrounding the verse that raged on during the 1950 thru 1970s.

TTWSYF

Cofty, please tell me which words you do not understand and I'll try to explain. You seen to be attacking and not wanting to understand. Tone down your anger. My analogies are not gibberish. You asked for someone to explain in simple easy to understand ways. That;s what I did. I am not trying to convert you, just explaining in a way that someone like you could. I don;t know if I can be any clearer with an analogy about a being {GOD} with no peer.

Wonderment _Yes, the bible states explicitly that the Holy Spirit is God and that Jesus is God. I gave explicit examples from the NWT. Reading other passages takes nothing away from what I posted.

Slimboy-Yes, there are scriptures that indicate that Jesus is subordinate to the Father. Of course, the Father speaks and Jesus IS HIS WORDS. And the Father's words are so awesome that they are alive. They are Jesus and has ALL of the POWER of God. How could it all be true if Jesus is only a messenger? You are saying that the scriptures that put Jesus as below prove that he is not God. How do you reconcile the scriptures that indicate him as God?

59

John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2

by Wonderment in

continued from part 1 (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5097191899136000/john-1-1-colossians-1-16-all-other-things):.

the nw translation and some of its unique renderings, like john 1.1- "a god," and colossians 1.16 - "all other things," have been consistently at the top of the most debated topics here in this forum and elsewhere from the beginning.

the anger felt by detractors of the nwt rendering of john 1.1 (a god) has diminished considerably if compared to the furious debates surrounding the verse that raged on during the 1950 thru 1970s.

TTWSYF

it's so totally understandable why JWs [former too]have such a problem with the trinity concept. The WTS talks always about how good the bible is and it's God's word and all that, but then tells you that the bible doesn;t mean what it says. Doomed to be like posters we all love to debate with. I'll be a brief as possible. Below from the NWT states explicitly that the Holy Spirit is God and Jesus is God.

Acts 5'3 But Peter said: “An·a·ni′as, why has Satan emboldened you to lie+ to the holy spirit+ and secretly hold back some of the price of the field?4 As long as it remained with you, did it not remain yours? And after it was sold, was it not in your control? Why have you thought up such a deed as this in your heart? You have lied, not to men, but to God.”

This one [explicitly prophesying Jesus IS GOD] is from

IS 96 For a child has been born to us,+A son has been given to us;And the rulership* will rest on his shoulder.+His name will be called Wonderful Counselor,+ Mighty God,+Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

One for Cofty- We have 3 dimensions in our reality. We have [and can observe] length, depth and height. Engineers will use the terms x,y and z axis, carpenters like Jesus would use the square, level and plumb. When you have three dimensions, you can see a clear picture in 3 dimensions. Take away a dimension and you have a lesser picture or view. Height is not more important than depth, and width is not more important than height, these dimensions work together to give us a clearer view and do not contradict at all. They work together to create an image that we can see. The trinity could be explained like that without committing heresy.

26

Morning all! Just here to say hi and join in the discussion

by park ave boy in

jw
friends

i'm happy to join every ex-jw.borg site i can and support in whatever way i can.

i now regularly donate to these sites when available.

i'm bitter but i don't hate jws because they were brainwashed like we all were.

TTWSYF

I don;t know. I am here because of family members in the borg. I get info on what's going on in JW land from sites like this one. Some here are still in working out their faith with fear and trembling, others are waiting, others are not sure. One thing for sure is that the WTS is very good at fear and manipulation, so it is difficult for the members to break free. Congratulations to you for making an informed decision! Life is a journey and God never intended for a small group controlling another group. People cannot see when they are inside. People in the borg will say 'look at the fruits'. Well, there are no fruits. No JW anywhere can tell of a true JW fruit because it is not there at all.

just saying, cause it;s true

26

Morning all! Just here to say hi and join in the discussion

by park ave boy in

jw
friends

i'm happy to join every ex-jw.borg site i can and support in whatever way i can.

i now regularly donate to these sites when available.

i'm bitter but i don't hate jws because they were brainwashed like we all were.

TTWSYF

Welcome to the board!

The Truth Will Set You Free

ttwsyf

9

To be "literal" or not in Bible translation

by Wonderment in

some participants in this forum often bring up their criticisms of bible versions of not sticking to the original scriptures.

a few individuals have claimed that a word-for-word translation is absolutely necessary.

the answer is not that simple.

TTWSYF

To have literal bible translations or not depends on where you are getting your info.

If you had 20 people reading and interpreting the bible on their own you would get 20 different versions of what was to come and what was important.

How would one know who the real and true authority was in such a scenario?

Jesus did start a church which gave us the bible. There is a history of interpretation that goes back 2000 years and IS consistent in it's teachings. Why would anyone want a NEW interpretation that has only been around a few hundred years or less? How could such new interpretations be more legitimate than the oldest?

just wondering

3

Has anyone watched the movie "Stigmata"?

by WireRider in

interesting movie about biblical cover-ups.

"no gospels in jesus's own words.

" the vatican, admittedly the largest collection of all christian scrolls and documents, would split up pages between translators to keep it secret.. theme: "split a piece of wood and i am there.

TTWSYF

Just a movie... and not a very good one in my opinion...

.: "Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift a stone and you will find me."

I think that's from the gospel of Thomas. One of the rejected gospels because it wasn;t old enough, circulated enough and/or true enough to be a true gospel.

Other rejected gospels include the gospel of Mary, of Peter, of Judas to name a few others. Interesting reading, but labeled as books not worthy enough for the bible cannon. Interesting that they used a Padre Pio look- a-like. Devout catholic priest who had the stigmata for decades according to his peers. Others thought he did it to himself.

38

Watchtower says in Paradise we will fly like Superman and so avoid accidents???!!

by Witness 007 in

golden age aug 25 1926 p.751.

"negative gravitation.

you may have wondered how accidents will be avoided in jesus kingdom since we are told nothing will hurt or destroy.

TTWSYF

More typical watchtower jealousy. The Catholics have been talking about flying around in heaven for thousands of years, It's all over the bible. About time that the watchtower got on board.

What's next? Jesus worship?

59

John-1-1-Colossians-1-16-all-other-things - Part 2

by Wonderment in

continued from part 1 (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5097191899136000/john-1-1-colossians-1-16-all-other-things):.

the nw translation and some of its unique renderings, like john 1.1- "a god," and colossians 1.16 - "all other things," have been consistently at the top of the most debated topics here in this forum and elsewhere from the beginning.

the anger felt by detractors of the nwt rendering of john 1.1 (a god) has diminished considerably if compared to the furious debates surrounding the verse that raged on during the 1950 thru 1970s.

TTWSYF

Wonderment- So the NWT is still the most accurate bible in existence, right?

just asking