I'll never forget my uber JW brother telling me that they {WTS} uses the term 'Lying for the Truth'. I was disgusted and he just thought of it as 'Theocratic warfare'.
How do you still follow such nonsense after hearing 'lying for the truth'?
Posts by TTWSYF
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40How do you feel about the expression "The Truth"?
by stuckinarut2 init's amazing how the expression "the truth" has become such an ingrained term used by witnesses.. "we have 'the truth'".
"is he 'in the truth'?".
most here have found out so many facts about the organisation, and felt the effects of being "gut-punched" as we realised these facts.. so how do you feel about the expression "the truth" now?.
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TTWSYF
The one that translates exactly what the writer meant and said, and NOT what the translator wants to convey.
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Governing Body Martyrs
by Alive! inthe early apostles were always on the front line from scriptural accounts.. they led the ministry, enthusiastically speaking in high places, in market places to courts and kings relying on the 'power of the spirit' and constantly were in danger for their lives.
they put their very souls at risk.
they promised that they did not circulate amongst the early disciples with clever 'smooth ' words but with works of power.
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TTWSYF
blondie31 minutes ago
The phrase "governing body" is not in the bible; it is a construct of the WTS.
Peter was executed.
Paul was executed
Stephen was executed.
Actually, all of the apostles [except for John whom took Mary as his mother] were murdered/executed quite brutally.
At least, that's what I'd read somewhere along the line
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47
Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?
by TTWSYF inwith some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?
some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.
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TTWSYF
Yes, I have faith, but only after reading and comparing what history really says. Both for and against as opposed to only against. If it passes the smell test, then it is what it is.
Real fruits that have helps billions and billions of people is real and historically traceable.
Of course you wouldn't want to comment on these things other proofs. You want to support your position. YOU cannot deny what is truth, you can only ignore it.
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Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?
by TTWSYF inwith some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?
some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.
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TTWSYF
To deny that Jesus started a church to him self is a learned response. It is an attempt to deny what is clearly and explicitly written and historically traceable. Trying to use reason to explain why it doesn't mean what it actually says is an argument devoid of reason.
His church gave the world the bible centuries after his death and resurrection. He promised that his church would last all ages. He instructed his apostles HOW to set up HIS church. {Who would have a church to himself?} The church fathers all confirmed the deity of Christ and the sacraments [including the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist].
His church gave the world schools, colleges, laws of evidence, the scientific method, hospitals, shelters for battered women, homeless, mentally ill, the old and the poor. His church gave the world food banks and promoted human rights world wide. These fruits are also proof of HIS church as no other group or organization can lay claim to such a rich and full history.
Check the history and scriptures [without theocratic warfare]
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47
Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?
by TTWSYF inwith some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?
some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.
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TTWSYF
Mephis- The question or op is 'Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?'
Scripture is pretty explicit in it's proof texts. He commissioned the apostles to go baptizing in his name [or, also the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost]. He laid out instructions on what the apostles should do, what they should teach and how to live. Of course he started a church to himself.
Ask yourself this. If you read that Mohamed said he started a church to himself, would you state something like ' the koran was written 100 years after he died and he was speaking in future tense...so...'
Of course not. The reason is because the argument is not reasonable. Don;t take that as a dig, it's just that you would never read that and think 'he didn;t start a church to himself' even though the test says that he did.
Your argument that HE DIDN"T start his church is not within reason.
Make sense?
Just asking
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47
Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?
by TTWSYF inwith some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?
some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.
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TTWSYF
Mephis,
Yes, it is true that there were others who believed in Jesus, but did not follow the apostles per say.
Remember the texts that stated that others were casting out in Jesus's name, but did not follow the apostles ways. This does not mean that Jesus didn't start HIS church on the apostles. He commissioned the apostles to do ALL that he commanded. All other followers would not have the fullness of what Jesus taught. The bible came after the church. The bible was given to the world FROM the church.
There was a church in place by acts of the apostles. This is confirmed in the [1st] council of Jerusalem. Notice that James is the bishop of Jerusalem, but it is Peter who leads and controls the council. Jesus said to go and make disciples proclaiming the gospels to all the nations.
Ultimately, one must take everything into account. Is it possible that a man [or men] could decipher the scriptures better than the Church that gave them to the world? A church started by Christ himself? Perhaps that may be why you reason that Jesus didn't start a church in the face of explicit texts.
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Scriptures that will never be the YEAR TEXT
by ttdtt inso what scriptures do you think will never make the cut?i will start off with one to warm you all up.. 1 corinthians 4:6 - do not go beyond the things that are written,.
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TTWSYF
How about this one
John 5;23
Young's Literal Translation
that all may honour the Son according as they honour the Father; he who is not honouring the Son, doth not honour the Father who sent him. -
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If JWs were to change their name what would they change it to?
by slimboyfat inwas it 1931 when they adopted jehovah's witnesses?
(at the time with lower case w) isn't it about time now they changed name again?
i mean everything else is changing why not the name!
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TTWSYF
NWT Witnesses [there's almost no Christ in JW world] -
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Did Jesus actually start a church to himself?
by TTWSYF inwith some 30,000 different christian denominations, how would one know which one was for real?
some folks think jesus did start a church, others think no.
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TTWSYF
Mephis
Well,.. we are all entitled to our opinions, I am honestly trying to, but I just don't follow your logic. Being written in one gospel isn't good enough? Do you think that it must be written in other gospels to be legit? What about the all other passages that were not repeated in other gospels? I mean, the bible says Jesus did lots of other stuff that never made it to the gospels, right?
Also your point about Jesus building, or Jesus having HIS church built,or he will build as a way out of this explicit proof text is just a bunch of nonsense. Do you actually believe that? That Jesus did not intend to have HIS church.
There WAS a church [in the making] for hundreds of years before the bible, right? I believe that Jesus DID start a church and started building it on the apostles. The passage that refers to Peter as the rock that he will build his church on is the first corner of the foundation. A building needs a foundation to start. A church starts and is built as it goes along, like a building, no?