i like to think that i have escaped the cult completely, since i, and members of my close family, faded away years ago.
however, i have recently realized that my "elder" uncle, my father's older brother, could technically have me disfellowshipped, such as if he figures out that i post on an "apostate" message board (i've tried to direct my cousin here), or sees me smoking in a restaurant in the small town we all live in, or hears from my father that my boyfriend and i have been away for a weekend together.. so i've recently discovered this fear.
although i believe i'm "out" i'm still trapped in a way.
If you are worried about getting DFed plead insanity and get a doctor's note. Say you are depressed, anxious, blah blah. Any doctor will treat you for just SAYING you are depressed.
With doctor's note in hand the elders are told to be sympathetic. Then hopefully they will just leave you alone.
i'm a good public speaker - when i have my power point.
this is because i am a very visual person.
when i had my notes everything seemed to get blurry.. it bothers me that there is this unwritten law that you are not allowed to give visual presentations in the kingdom hall... even assemblies equipped with multiple projectors (to view baptism) do not use power point or any type of visual stimulus.. hell even when they have 10,000 plus people they are still working a full day with just a man on stage talking.
I'm a good public speaker - when I have my power point. This is because I am a very visual person. When I had my notes everything seemed to get blurry.
It bothers me that there is this unwritten law that you are not allowed to give visual presentations in the kingdom hall... Even assemblies equipped with multiple projectors (to view baptism) do not use power point or any type of visual stimulus.
HELL even when they have 10,000 plus people they are still working a full day with just a man on stage talking. BLAH BLAH BLAH. CLAP. BLAH BLAH BLAH. CLAP.
This is why I had to draw in my notes. This is why when others seemed to be paying attention I was playing M.A.S.H. with my friends. When these people were thinking about the spiritual conversations they were going to have after the convention I was writing notes to my friends about where we were going to go for dinner.
I don't believe in hypnotism (at least not in the way that most people seem to believe it to be) but I have seen on this board the suggestion that they are trying to put people in a trance. With what little knowledge I have about hypnotic language and the trance state (example: highway hypnosis) I have to think that the society is really trying to be as repetitive as possible.
When I was studying the brain and how it works we came to the topic of the brain of a child with Autism. Thinking particularly about the Aspergers end of the spectrum it is noted that they tend to focus on 2 or 3 interests exclusively. They study these interests as much as they can and someone attempts a conversation with them they are like little professors about the topic. And that's where the problem is! Any topic you may bring up gets somehow driven BACK to the topic they want to talk about.
Going back to the brain, the interesting thing about this is that this narrow minded thinking (according to the professor) causes ACTUAL brain damage. You can think of your brain like a muscle getting a work out from everything you experience. The neurons travel down synapses or whatever (I'm not a brain expert) but if you tend to just think about one or two different things at all times those areas of the brain strengthen and everything else atrophys. It really makes sense when you think about it. That's why parents of children who have Autism are usually trained to get them to stop talking about the certain thing and explore new interests.
I should have chosen the name "can't stay on topic", Nephilim isn't working. SORRY!
Anyhow let's try to go full circle. The fact that the Jehovah's Witnesses do not even have the capability of being set up for a power point presentation just seems to me as further proof that they are in fact just repeating the same information again and again and again hoping that those parts of the listeners brains will end up decaying so they can only travel down that narrow path with their narrow minds thinking their narrow thoughts. The rest of the brain is in atrophy mode though. PATHETIC.
Just think of how cool power point presentations would be at the meetings! Or hell, go to a non-denominational church with the set up and see the difference.
Or further don't waste your Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday nights (HOPEFULLY YOU WERENT WASTING YOUR FRIDAY NIGHTS) anymore and take a class regarding something you were always interested in.
we were told that the preaching work was lead and guided by ''angels'' and the holy spirit.. if that is so,why the need for magazine presentations week after week?
why is a half hour spent showing each member what to say and how to respond to certain questions?
why practice presentations when the angels and holy spirit are there to help?.
I wonder this question too. The worst part about this set up is that the presentations are not interactive. You have to practice on your own rather than having the congregation have some spare time during the school to try out the presentations on someone sitting next to them.
I went to a non-denominational church (once) and I was SHOCKED when the people in charge of the service said, "turn to somebody you know and have a conversation with them... get to know them... start with "where are you from?" or "how did you end up here". They specifically said not to bring up unpolite questions such as "what do you do for work", "what school do you go to" etc. It was just time for the people to be friendly to one another.
what is a fact?
a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened.
i've read the bible many times in many ways with many methods.. .
Bronny,
My one rule for people who say that they've talked to demons is that I need the names of the demons in question. Please give me at least a couple of the names of the ones that are bothering you and I'll do my best to get them to back off.
Also, don't listen to them... Lithium doesn't help and it just makes you gain weight.
what is a fact?
a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened.
i've read the bible many times in many ways with many methods.. .
Gerard,
I like how they start off with Dinosaurs. Everyone loves dinosaurs!!! Great find... my faith went up 200 points. I don't know who this Terry guy thinks he is...
jehovah's witnesses are the only people that will inherit life on paradise earth.
only jehovah's witnesses have the ''truth''.
the wts is the only ''channel' 'to jehovah.
In most stories (world-wide even) the protagonist is thought highly of for doing what he felt was right. It's something that we value because going off into the oblivion of ignorance is usually costly.
Having said that... I thought I was doing the right thing. To tell you the truth there is a high chance that a lot of people on earth made the same mistake I did or are still making the same mistake.
To say these mistakes are weighty is ridiculous. How were we supposed to know? If we had any sort of red flag being waved in our face the entire time then we would have done something about it sooner.
I met a lot of people. I made a lot of friends. Even though they aren't with me anymore I still have memories. I still developed some nice social skills. The weight like Robdar said is on the WBTS. For any of the pain, death, abuse I'm too little to be responsible for that.
was looking for something else but ran into this-great vid imho :).
witnessing- jehovah witness gets saved.
blessings,.
Chalam,
Thank you for a good answer. Also, thank you for sharing the video - I have heard of this but never thought I would actually see it. It is definitely different than what I thought it would look like. Back when I was studying Chinese I would attend the Chinese congregations and they were so wonderful. 1 in 5 persons on this planet are Chinese therefore they represent a respectful amount of the population which is why I appreciate Mad Sweeney's comment.
Brocephus,
I would use the word "lost" first before cynical and jaded. You have to realize that at one point in time these people said "I give up". That's what I did at least. "I give up". "I'm wrong". This leads to the natural questioning of life. "What else am I so sure about that I COULD be wrong about?" It puts you on the defense. It doesn't have to mess you up.
It is true, however, I wasn't really allowed to ask too many mind expanding questions for a good portion of my life. Now I'd like to spend some time asking questions (not Glenn Beck style, I don't even own a chalk board).
Going back to the hell fire thing I am still getting stuck (just wait until I start asking somebody to explain the Trinity to me)... Okay so you mentioned that if a person commits a crime in a land that they don't know the law of they still have to face the penalty. I agree this is true. Is it just? I can't say so entirely, it depends on the crime. Some laws are completely wacky.
Furthermore, this is just an analogy for us floating around earth taking in knowledge and trying to figure out what laws are important and which ones are not important. I prefer (note I said prefer) to believe that if there was a God that he would realize that things in the world are so confusing today with so many different religions, and in each religion a sub-division of religion... But focusing even more so from just a Christian point of view there are even a lot of different versions of the Bible itself which is not cool.
If God put the Bible as his word on earth then there should be just one version with a fairly obvious depiction of what we should and shouldn't be doing. I would say that it's God's responsibility to maintain that. Perhaps though the persons who purposely change the writings of God's word for whatever reason bear the hugely massive weight of responsibility for that confusion. BUT I AM GETTING SO WAY OFF TOPIC.
Some Christians believe in Hell. Other Christians who seem to be reading the same book don't believe in Hell. Does it really come down to the symantics? Why do all these important things have leeway for interpretation. Any good lawyer knows how to bend the law to make it work for him/her. I say this, yet I'm not saying this because I fear hell and want to symantically get my way out of it.
Point being - we are simple people and life is very, very confusing at times. With that particular analogy I see a foreigner in court facing a crime that he was not aware of and I'm the judge... And I ask the foreigner "did you know about our obscure law?". He just looks at me because he doesn't speak the same language... and I ask for a translator and they get me one... (I just saw this happen in traffic school btw)... Anyhow, I can tell the person's heart was in the right place and meant no harm. What am I going to think is justice? I sure as hell (hahaha) am going to give him a second chance after he knows what's right and good.
That's justice to me, I think.
was looking for something else but ran into this-great vid imho :).
witnessing- jehovah witness gets saved.
blessings,.
I agree with Think About It just an idiot at the flea market talking to an obvious stooge. If this were a "real" witness they would not respond the way this lady does. Although I am in no way saying that "real" witness logic trumps all... they are just way more resilient then this smiley happy woman who is learning that all she ever knew was a lie.
He wants to convince her that death itself is not enough punishment and that God wants her to be burnt in hell forever. It makes no sense. It never will. A person has around 70 years or so (if they're lucky) to spend on earth enduring hardship after hardship. This guy in the video believes that if you make a few mistakes during that short time the consequence is that you are tortured in hell forever.
Ridiculous. Logically, if this were the case the 70 years that the person spent on earth would soon be matched by the torture of hell and if what he's saying is really true it would be doubled, tripled, ect. until the 70 years the person spent on earth seems so incredibly tiny that the torture is no longer relevant to that life. Hell fire forever? Eventually you'd be a million years old still thinking about those 70 years or so it would be such a small fraction that the punishment would not make sense.
If anybody really believes in hell on this forum I'd like for them to explain it to me. Starting with the question, "If someone doesn't believe in hell, how can they be justifily punished by hell?"
just want to hear what other people think,.
by the way our cong.
had a "needs" talk warning people not to watch this movie.. i have to say however that after watching it, i almost went to elders to confess my 'apostate sins,' in order to survive that big day..
If you are confessing your "sins" to make it into a paradise earth then you are doing it for the wrong reason. You wouldn't survive this system because of that act alone.
If the Bible is true then you must love God and you must have faith in him. Keeping your eye on the prize isn't really love for God.
It's a lose, lose situation for you right now. You obviously fear the wrath of the end of the world but you have no love for the God you learned about.
I guess you to ask yourself the following questions...
Am I going to try my best to learn how to worship God appropriately? AND
Do I really believe in a religion that teaches that the only way to God is through Jesus and the WBTS rather than just Jesus? AND
Do I really believe in God at all? AND
Is the appeal of religion to me just the reward of an afterlife?
And by the way, you can only be an apostate if you know the truth exactly (without doubts) and try and pull others out.
i remember a talk that was delivered at an assembly a while back that was repeated many times in my old hall and i remember it had a line in it that had one of those effects on people like they would go into a silent trance.
if you were allowed to "oooh!
" or "awe!
I remember a talk that was delivered at an assembly a while back that was repeated many times in my old hall and I remember it had a line in it that had one of those effects on people like they would go into a silent trance. If you were allowed to "Oooh!" or "Awe!" at the kingdom hall then that would be the kind of response that this would get.
Anyhow, the man on stage was talking about service. He was especially talking about all the wonderful things that happened when you went out in field service regularly. The word "Joy" was used a lot. Which, by the way, having been a witness all my life I now associate the word "Joy" with a whole lot of pain. Isn't that weird?
So the whole talk started to beat around the bush regarding the outlook on service, as if the speaker knew that service was an unpleasant thing... Until finally the brother dropped the bomb on the assembly hall and I quote, "If you don't like service... You are probably just doing it enough to hate it".
HOLY BALLS! (Also not allowed to say at kingdom hall)
Like a verbal whip he Indiana Jonesed the entire assembly hall into silent submission.
I seriously sat there and thought for just one PILLAR OF A SALT OF A SECOND and thought "maybe I hate going out in service because I am doing it just enough to hate it... maybe I should do it more and that will make me like it? Maybe I'll get really good at it and maybe it'll be easier?"
And then, what has probably already occured to you, but slam dunked the 700 or so people there at the assembly hall hit me...
I thought, "maybe I'm just going to work enough to hate it"...
"maybe I'm just getting my blood drawn enough to hate it"...
"maybe I'm just getting my teeth pulled out just enough to hate it"...
"maybe I'm just getting sand in my eyes just enough to hate it"...
"maybe I'm just getting yelled at just enough to hate it"...
"maybe I'm just doing >insert negative thing here< just enough to hate it"
You know... after I thought about, it started not to make any sense. So I honestly had a talk with a pioneer in my hall. I said, "Does service ever get any easier?" and she said "YES" immediately. Almost like she was saying "duh" to me.
Well I guess I was wrong... I was going out in service just enough to hate it. Crap.
But then something tragic happened that I'll never forget... her sister (who was MUCH shyer) she started to cry and she was shaking her head. She kept saying "no it doesn't". She couldn't stop crying. And the weird thing about it was that she was putting in just as many hours as her sister, they were pioneering together.
WEIRD.
So here's my point in writing this. Why is shyness, just an excuse in the eyes of other Jehovah's Witnesses? In this world we have outgoing people and shy people and hell even the outgoing people hate doing the abnormal religious debating to hostile Saturday morning sleepers (who deserve to sleep in on the weekend).
Shyness isn't an excuse. Not liking service doesn't going away for some. God isn't blessing some and forsaking others for odd reasons. It just wouldn't make any sense.
I feel bad for every shy person who thinks that God is forgetting them, or that they aren't doing enough, or that they are bad. Who is ever going to stand up for them?
Or maybe I should just get used to them suffering.
