Posts by The_Doctor10

91

Proof - of what?

by Doltologist in

a few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.

being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.

the first was called "was life created?

The_Doctor10

To get anyone who is a current JW to be open to taking an honest look at the WTS and the Bible, they need to have already questioned something in the organization or the Bible themselves first. Otherwise they're just full on regurgitaters of the "truth," they've been indoctrinated in.

For myself, simple research into the 1914 belief started my decline. 607B.C. not being the year that any secular historian accepts as the correct year of Jerusalem's destruction, which really should be enough to go, "The WTS got this wrong. This should be backed up by secular history, that would be what makes this belief right and what makes it believable. Our beliefs are always touted as being backed up by worldly facts, why is this one wrong?"

The original date of 1914 was preached to be the end, not the beginning of Christ's rule, they changed this to fit under their, "new light," premise. Then you find out about other failed dates, 1874-1878, 1925, 1975, etc... And every time the WTS dismisses the claims with, "While some in the organization felt this way, this was never the direction of the GB." If you don't go, "Well then why were these dates in your literature that you disseminated to your followers?!," then you're still too indoctrinated with your beliefs about the "spirit-directed" organization to move forward. This started my decline. Then that lead to questioning the Bible itself, then the loss of faith altogether.

There has to be a self-made crack in the armor of their belief before any further progress can be made.

16

Drama at the RC

by leaving_quietly in

i sat through part 1 of the drama yesterday.

i thought they did a fairly decent job with it, except for the weird questions asked up front by an ancient guy asking "how do you know jehovah's witnesses have the truth?

" that has absolutely nothing to do with how he was convinced jesus was the messiah.

The_Doctor10

What bugged me about the Drama was that the two women are actually being extremely reasonable with their doubts about Jesus and this is portrayed as shortsighted because of, "faith."

"How do we know she was really sick before being 'healed?'" and "He ordered everyone out of the house except for the mother, father, and three of his own apostles, so how do we know if she was actually dead and not just asleep?"

The narrator dude even said that Jehovah doesn't want "blind faith, but for you to take into account all of the evidence and observe the facts." First off, 'blind faith,' is a redundant term, all faith is blind, if we have absolute proof of something then there's no faith required because we absolutely know by facts what something is. What was being asked of those two women was EXACTLY blind faith, they had ample reasons for doubt, but we're being told they should show faith.

We should question faith every opportunity we have, it's ridiculous what the WTS requires of its followers, it needs people to blindly follow.

15

A Watchtower quote about apostates I never knew about

by Saintbertholdt in

i knew the watchtower didn't like me, but i didn't know they wanted to physically kill me (if they were allowed)from the 15 november 1952 watchtower magazine under questions from readers:.

in the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?.

we are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from god and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of israel in the wilderness of sinai and in the land of palestine... (and a bit later)..being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of god through jesus christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws.. so let me get this straight: if our secular pesky laws were not an obstacle and jesus was not in the way we'd be hunted and exterminated?.

The_Doctor10

It's those scriptures that I like to use to show how immoral/hypocritical the Bible/Jehovah actually are. Jehovah directly commanded his people to stone to death others. It's not that they did this way back in ancient times, that's not surprising, but it goes to show that God is not truly "merciful," or "loving," he's malicious, malevolent, and vengeful.

I truly believe if the GB introduced "new light," that prompted some good ol' Old Testament justice, a lot in the organization would go along with it.

My moral bearings wouldn't ever allow me to stone someone else, regardless of who commanded me to do so, for anything they do with their own bodies. But so many "in the truth," today are really chomping at the bit to exact "God's wrath," should they get the chance.

25

Single Sisters

by BashfulAshG in

am i the only one who has single, desperate sisters in the congregation?

they tend to be holier-than-thou, frumpty, but in private talk about getting married.

but they don't understand why no brother will look at them.

The_Doctor10

Desperation is in every KH. I mean marriage is one of the only activities condoned in being a JW, so it's a pretty big deal to those man-seeking frumpaluffaguses. Timeline of being a JW: be indoctrinated at an early age, miss out on tons of fun other kids get to have, get baptized dedicating yourself to a lifetime of being a non-thinking repeater of ancient writ, get married to a frumptastic fellow non-thinker, have and indoctrinate your own brood, and then die "in the truth," holding out hope that in the next life you'll get to do some things you actually want to do.

As a side note, talking about the goofy dress standards. I remember going to this past year's Annual Meeting and the stupid rhetoric about how the sisters shouldn't be wearing "Spanx," he really meant Yoga/tight workout pants, which brings up the issue of the GB just being so far out of touch. I mean, if you're going to denounce something, at least get the name of the thing you're denouncing right! Also too, this is more of that "rape-culture," vibe, basically blaming sisters for causing brothers' inappropriate thoughts.

Then the whole brothers in skinny pants, or bright dress clothing, "calling attention to themselves." Just step in line, be modest and boring. I've always found the unwritten "no beard," rule weird too, I mean we see nothing but beards in the publications but any brother having a beard is a no-no.

It's all too tedious and overbearing, it's ridiculous.

19

What if JWs Viewed Disfellowshipping and Excommunication as Radical Islamists Do?

by Oubliette in

i found this statement from a recent article about isis to be quite interesting in view of the way that any jw can be accused of apostasy with little or no possible repercussions or consequences for the accuser: .

in islam, the practice of takfir, or excommunication, is theologically perilous.

if a man says to his brother, you are an infidel, the prophet said, then one of them is right.

The_Doctor10

I wouldn't be surprised if you surveyed JWs on the subject of, "Would you support stoning an apostate/those who leave the faith?" You'd probably see Islam-esque numbers in support of the practice.

JWs are every bit as fervent about their faith as those of Islamic faith, the only difference of note is that at the moment JWs look for J-Hov to do the dirty work instead of handling it themselves.

I'm pretty sure though, if the GB passed down a doctrine bringing back stoning, there'd be many JWs packing their briefcases full of Old Testament "justice." Especially the little old sisters, they'd be first in line for a good ol' fashioned stone throwin'.

18

Why would Jehovah and Jesus talk to Satan?

by hardtobeme in

if satan is the greatest apostate there is, why he was allowed to be in heaven?

job chapters 1 and 2 says that jehovah talked to him.

wasn't jehovah supposed to shun his son and set an example to all parents?.

The_Doctor10

The story of Job always bugged me. Being raised a JW it was always impressed on me the importance of Job's faith, but I always only saw Jehovah as failing his servant, allowing Satan of all demons be the one to "test," Job.

If Satan is such an adversary why would Jehovah make any kind of deal with him?!

The Bible is full of these kinds of suspensions in logic.

12

For once and for all

by Pistoff in

for the latest apologists for the gb and the lawyers that rank and file are paying for:.

the wt has not changed their policy.. they still have a 2 witness policy about child sexual abuse, and think it's a good idea.. they will still appoint someone who has sexually abused a child, if they want to.. they say that they won't allow an abuser to go door to door without supervision, but this means nothing, as they protect the identity of abusers; they refuse to tell all elders and ms's who they are, witness mr. kendricks.. nothing has changed..

The_Doctor10

The practices of the JWs are appalling once you're on the outside looking in.

Add in the other end of the two witness policy, no such policy needed to indict those accused of sexual immorality with a member of the opposite sex. An elder catches wind from just one person that you've dibble dabbled in someone's honeypot and you're in front of a judicial committee faster than you can do your best Bill Clinton, "I did not have sexual relations with that wom..." ... "You're disfellowshipped!"

Abuse your spouse, better have two witnesses, diddle a kid, two witnesses, take up smoking, two witnesses, on and on...

Its absurd.

7

Manicheism of the WTBTS

by coalize in

i think one of the more evil trick of the wtbts is their manicheism!.

on a large bunch of subjects, they wants the fellow followers to believe that in a given situation, it is only possible to take two choice, of course, diametrically opposite.

and of course, you have the good choice and the bad choice.. of course, nothing is more wrong than that!

The_Doctor10

Yup, got fed up with the, "do it this way or you're wrong," mentality it took to be a JW. The "God is always right," bs, like, really? Have you read Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy recently? Some of the most atrocious "moral," guidance one could ever imagine, all commanded by our supposed, "loving," creator.

It takes blind belief to continue as a JW, honestly, I don't even understand why they tell people to read their bible daily, JWs have to believe the way they're told or they're out, just show up, do as you're told, and continue to do so and you'll get everlasting life in paradise!

Its so strange how you can be in a cult but not realize it until you're on the outside looking back in.

131

On the Relevancy of The Institutionalization of Sin

by Perry in

child murder, sodomy & corrupting the human genome are not new sins, they are old ones.

what is new is their institutionalization.

but even that isn't totally new.

The_Doctor10

I never understood how someone would leave the WTS for any other religion. I just dropped my faith like a hot potato after 25 years of indoctrination in JW hullabaloo.

So much easier living without having all of the judgemental thoughts running through my head due to what I was taught by the GB. I just treat people on a person to person basis, if whatever is happening is taking place between consenting adults, then it's on the up-and-up as far as I'm concerned.

After losing my faith, I found it silly that I ever was concerned with what a supposed omniscient, omnipresent, all-powerful, all-wise creator who had the entirety of the universe to attend to, that somehow one of his main concerns was what consenting adults do while naked. Downright comical looking back on it all now.

11

Is this a big reason that JW's are so attractive to some out there?

by dubstepped in

in another thread i saw it mentioned that this elder and his wife were trying to preach to the poster here and said that they liked that jw's had answers to their questions.

i've heard that over and over throughout the years, and it does make sense on a level.

people in other religions sometimes have questions and are told that this or that is a mystery, or that they just have to have faith, etc.

The_Doctor10

Being a JW is a lot like living a religious version of Family Feud, "7 Members of the Governing Body were surveyed, top answer is in the book, we asked, 'Is homosexuality a sin?' Bible says!"

There's no burden for rationale in being a JW, it's just a do as you're told religion and a lot of people don't mind that or are drawn to it. Doesn't matter if the answers don't make a whole lot of sense, at least they don't have to think about whatever it is anymore, they have their answer in their many, many books.