Posts by Podobear

33

How many times was Christ begotten?

by GOrwell in

in light of all the recent trinity threads, how many times do you think christ was begotten?.

Podobear

@JohnathanDough: I would like to cut through all the anti JW diatribe and stick to research thanks. As I have recorded before I AM AN EX PENTECOSTAL and A JW WALKAWAY (1984), so I would ask you to stop using me and others as a sounding board for antiJW attack. Most of us have made our own minds up, and for our own reasons.

On the subject of John 1:18, you know all too well that modern translations use "only begotten god", in reference to the pre human Jesus. This human term, as you quite rightly explain is not used in any "human" sense of procreation... but explains simply the creation of a being of the same nature as God...made of the same stuff.

Back to GOrwells question: My answer remains, technically once. The Christ, The Messiah, The Sent Forth One was himself created... he is Monogenetic, in the bosom of his Father.

33

How many times was Christ begotten?

by GOrwell in

in light of all the recent trinity threads, how many times do you think christ was begotten?.

Podobear

Interesting slant GOrwell: Technically only once... I suppose. John 1:18 explains that the "Son" was monogenetic, begotten/created by Almighty God of the same substance.

(Interestingly, a Trinitarian will avoid the KJV in this one, as it more correctly translates as "No man hath seen God at any time. The Only Begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him" Modern Scholars will use the expression "only-begotten God".

If the Son (to become the earthly Jesus) is made of the same "Stuff", the Son can only be begotten once...???

@Moggy Lover: Love the analysis of Psalm 2. Thank you.

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

Podobear

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

Podobear

Well all I can say on Psalm 2 is that it reads straight forward to me... and since the creed of Athanasius wasn't endorsed at the time.. I cannot see anything other than Almighty God appointing his King (his own words) on Mount Zion. The same phrasiology is used throughout the Psalms and is cited in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

However, the display of linguistic semantics, intersecting with lexicology, syntax, pragmatics and etymology by supporters of the numerous interpretations of the Trinitarian groups makes interesting reading. I left that confusion when I exited from the Pentecostal Movement, and re-read my Bible.

If Jehovah and Jesus were one and the same, I don't think it would be so encrypted and difficult to justify.

Further, we still have the resurrected and exalted Jesus calling upon his Father and his God in the book of Revelation.

Jesus seems to know who he is. That is all that matters. My view of the Trinity is the same as that of Paul in Galatians 1:8.... It is the other Gospel he warned about.

Love the comments Terry/allelsefails....(fancy a beer or whatever your tipple - sometime?)

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

Podobear

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

Podobear

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

Podobear

@Essan: Thank you for your comments. They are gracious and penned in a non confrontational way.

However, As I read from Genesis through to the last book Revelation... I see only harmony in all but 25 texts translated into English. The Trinitarian theories (please, I use that term liberally) and the differences inherent in Arianism, Sabellianism, Modalism all add to a murky picture for me.

I see the thread of the Kingdom and the Messiah beautifully weaved throughout Scripture, like Psalm 2... I see a resurrected and exalted Jesus who still cedes to his Father and God through the Greek Scriptures... his words to the faithful brothers of Philadelphia in Revelation 3 surely cannot be more plain.

And yet despite all of that beauty, a Trinitarian will twist the 25 verses and seek to explain the rest of Scripture.

Sorry, Essan, we have to disagree because accepting Jesus as the Messiah, Son of Almighty God and subject to him.. is not just human, it is Spiritual in every way.

Anything aside from that simple truth comes under the warning given by Paul in Galatians 1:8. I have heeded it.

I think our conversation has now become circular... unless you wish to discuss the famous 25 verses (cf. Johndough's listing a few pages back and a few more besides). p.s You referred to the purported supercillious remarks on another thread. You might like to check the phraseology of some of your fellow believers towards me.

I will have no truck with contentiousness... I am happy to reason. All the very best

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

Podobear

@Essan: So when THE LORD (Jehovah) said in verse 6: "Yet have I set my King upon my Holy Hill of Zion", you are saying that Jehovah is referring to himself? Not wanting to put interpretation in your mouth or pen... but I think you are very wrong.

We beg to differ.

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

Podobear

... correction, Des surname is spelt... MORTON

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

Podobear

@Essan: I offer my apologies again....

I tried to reason that a Jew, a Christianized Jew, in the first century, would not have 2000 years of Trinitarian infighting to cloud his reading of Psalm 2. Likewise, I do not read the Hebrew Scriptures with such confusion. Which version of the Trinity do you refer to? Godrulz, spars constantly on this front.

Psalm 2, surely refers to the Almighty addressing his "Son" as a separate being. It is so simple.

@Johndough: I find your address MUGWUMPESQUE (new word invented by me today (open to challenges)) I refused to be drawn into scornful and supercillious comments about individuals. I have printed elsewhere, that the Trinitarian logic, spins around approximately 25 individual texts, all of which can be read (in English) several ways. Only one text in my view, holds any weight behind the Trinitarian viewpoint... and that is John 20:28. This text has at least 3 plausible interpretations.

I do read my Bible, am intensely (fault) spiritual... have recently been to the top of Mt. Sinai to find peace with my late Mother and my Creator. I did that exactly 40 years to the day of my baptism in Christ. So, please do not speak to me scornfully.

Your contribution towards my understanding of Psalm 2 would be welcomed.

Why Psalm 2? Because I offer this as one of the many Psalms that I feel prove that Jehovah is NOT Jesus... which is the theme of this thread.

@godrulz: I was reared as a Pentecostal and have frequent, in depth discussion with my local Pentecostal Pastor... Des Moreton.. now if you are truly Pentecostal.... you should recognise that name... he was on tour last year as star of a film, made about his book. I believe he toured mainly in the East Coast, mid West area of the U.S. with his dear wife Rosalee.

Here's hoping this lot posts!