In light of all the recent trinity threads, how many times do you think Christ was begotten?
How many times was Christ begotten?
by GOrwell 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Black Sheep
Never
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GOrwell
C'mon now.. he was at least begotten once when was uncreated.. of course, the metaphysics of this escapes us mere mortals and defies all explanations. but then at the time of baptism, wasn't he begotten a second time (Ps 2:7, Heb 1:5)?
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aristeas
GO,
Are you hinting at the doctrine of being born of the spirit?
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moggy lover
The issue of the "begetting" mentioned at Hebs 1:5, revolves around the understanding that both Jews and Christians give to Ps 2. Undoubtedly both groups, back in the 1st Century AD at least, considered the second Psalm Messianic although attribution for its writing was acknowledged to be Davidic.
According to HH Rowley writing in his "The OT and Historical Study" page 167, this excerpt from the second Psalm was sung to an Israelite monarch at the time of his coronation, which was an investiture that included a ritual process of anointing. Thus the writer of Hebrews does not have a literal act of being born in mind when making use of this Psalm, but some sort of relational interface that included an investiture as King.
In almost staccato fashion, and in several powerful opening clauses to his letter, the writer cites seven OT passages, all designed to declare unequivocally, the pre-eminence of the Son over the angels. The citation in verse 5 is to point out that no angel, no matter how elevated in stature, was privileged to call God "Father" and whereas, collectively they could be called "sons of God" in the plural, the singular form "Son of God" was the exclusive possession of Him who was the Pre-eminent One. Like Christians who must express their relationship to God the Father only as a plurality - "our Father" and never "my Father" - so also the angels have the same constraint.
When then, was The Son officially declared to be the monarch, to have this second Psalm apply to Him? The writer of Hebrews is not specific, so we are forced to resort to exegesis. The most commonly held view is that this occurred at the resurrection of Christ in the light of Rom 1:4, and Acts 13:33.
I have consulted the older version of the Watchtower CD Rom, [2004] and could not find anyintelligible comment by the Watchtower leadership. Either this verse escapes them, or, they are so wrapped up in making Matt 24 say whatever it is they want it to say, that they simply can't be bothered getting any meaning congruent with their theology out of this text.
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godrulz
Monogenes (only begotten) has nothing to do with being created or beginning. He is the uncreated Creator Yahweh in the flesh. Without looking at all the verses, it seems to me a different Greek word is used in other places and likely refers to His physical resurrection (vs WT recreation of Michael) as the glorified God-Man forever. I can check the Gk. if I am given a verse or two. Jesus was also the Christ/Anointed from birth, not at his baptism like the WT teaches (heresy).
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Think About It
Monogenes (only begotten) has nothing to do with being created or beginning.
Of course not.....that would contradict your beliefs. Strange choice of context to use a word implying being created or having a beginning if that's not what you are really trying to convey. Now please tell us how we are all going to hell because we may think a word referring to being created does not really mean that. What a shell game and a sham.
Think About It
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free2beme
Well, he said it was six times ... but being a man you have to divide it by three and say it equaled two.
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Podobear
Interesting slant GOrwell: Technically only once... I suppose. John 1:18 explains that the "Son" was monogenetic, begotten/created by Almighty God of the same substance.
(Interestingly, a Trinitarian will avoid the KJV in this one, as it more correctly translates as "No man hath seen God at any time. The Only Begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him" Modern Scholars will use the expression "only-begotten God".
If the Son (to become the earthly Jesus) is made of the same "Stuff", the Son can only be begotten once...???
@Moggy Lover: Love the analysis of Psalm 2. Thank you.