Posts by The_Present

11

What degree of accuracy and consistency do you feel it's fair to hold today's religions to?

by The_Present_Truth in

as most of us know, if you look at most any religion today you might see bit of good and bits of bad, bits of truth and bits of falsehood, some christian teachings, some pagan practices & origins.

doesn't seem to matter where you look - the jw's included.

so i find myself asking myself, "to what degree of accuracy and consistency is it fair to hold today's religions to?".

The_Present_Truth

Marcus,

I don't recall stating it as you did:

Degree of accuracy based on what I was exposed to by the Watchtower? Can someone hold my head while I vomit? Thanks...

That's absolutely NOT what I was inferring since I no longer use the Watchtower or the JW's as my baseline for determining truth or consistency. Instead, I'd like to think that we can use the Bible as a historical record along with other secular records to account for what happened in history, what didn't, cities that may have existed, the people that may have lived there, battles that may have occurred, artifacts such as swords and the like that would have been found to validate it, etc. Take for instance the Mormons/LDS and there claims that certain cities existed - yet there's absolutely no record or evidence of them being here. Or that they claim these enormous battles took place in upstate NY and yet there hasn't been one relic found to validate that - even by their own admission. Or that Native Americans are descendants of the nation of Israel - yet DNA studies conclusively show no link between Native Americans and those originating from Israel. Etc, etc.....

Or how are we supposed to feel about religions that may give "incidental worship" to Satan by allowing, encouraging, or winking at celebrating morphed holidays that desensitize a person's conscience to things that may be displeasing to God? Halloween comes to mind - Demons, vampires, etc .... sure, Halloween's roots didn't start there, yet it's an obvious, visible part of the celebration today. I can't imagine for a second that Jesus would endorse that holiday or participate in it himself. That's the kind of baseline I'm suggesting. What would Jesus do? At least if you claim to be Christian. If you're Jewish then you obviously wouldn't use that baseline.

The scripture about light and darkness not mixing ,..nor truth with untruth ... continually pops in my mind. That's straight from the scriptures and not the Watchtower. So is it too "critical" to hold today's religions to that test? And I mean all religions and beliefs - not picking on any one group or holiday per say.

Thanks for sharing all that about Christmas Marcus - even though that wasn't what I was getting at with my question. It was an interesting read.

48

Former Jehovah's Witnesses..... becomes a Jewish Rabbi !

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

former jehovah's witnesses,craig emswiller is now a jewish rabbi, and is speaking up on the dialogue progam today sat.

nov,27, 2010, 7pm est.

dialouge is hosted by former jehovah's witnesses presiding overseer and watchtower historian richard rawe.

The_Present_Truth

Moshe,

Is it a requirement for conversion to Judaism that you have a lineage of Jewish blood?

48

Former Jehovah's Witnesses..... becomes a Jewish Rabbi !

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

former jehovah's witnesses,craig emswiller is now a jewish rabbi, and is speaking up on the dialogue progam today sat.

nov,27, 2010, 7pm est.

dialouge is hosted by former jehovah's witnesses presiding overseer and watchtower historian richard rawe.

The_Present_Truth

Didn't the Jews end up demonstrating that they had a major difference of opinion regarding Jesus "worldview" vs. theirs? I think the title "Messianic" Jew is where the significant difference comes in. The jews did not and do not feel that Jesus was the Messiah. Correct?

48

Former Jehovah's Witnesses..... becomes a Jewish Rabbi !

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

former jehovah's witnesses,craig emswiller is now a jewish rabbi, and is speaking up on the dialogue progam today sat.

nov,27, 2010, 7pm est.

dialouge is hosted by former jehovah's witnesses presiding overseer and watchtower historian richard rawe.

The_Present_Truth

From what I've read, isn't being a Messianic Jew a bit of an oxymoron? It's like oil and water. Am I wrong Moshe? (I've been reading on the site link you posted. Very interesting.)

The_Present_Truth

11

What degree of accuracy and consistency do you feel it's fair to hold today's religions to?

by The_Present_Truth in

as most of us know, if you look at most any religion today you might see bit of good and bits of bad, bits of truth and bits of falsehood, some christian teachings, some pagan practices & origins.

doesn't seem to matter where you look - the jw's included.

so i find myself asking myself, "to what degree of accuracy and consistency is it fair to hold today's religions to?".

The_Present_Truth

And I guess that's kind of my point Agonus, if we're incapable of knowing for sure that what we're subscribing to is the absolute accurate truth, then how could God punish the majority of followers of today's religions? They're likely as blinded as we were.

I do agree that it's, at a minimum, fair to hold them to the same standards that they set for themselves and others. Unfortunately when they live by the sword, they often times die by the sword. The JW's especially.

And yes, in the case of JW's or the WTBTS, when they claim they are "God's ONE chosen channel of communication" ...that sets the bar pretty darn high.

I guess my fear is that I may start holding my faith to the same standards that I hold matters of science - needing proof, continuity, etc. (Terry would be salivating over this statement.) And often times I can see the point that Terry makes in his writings. Where I find myself leaning today though is a firm belief in God, but a God who doesn't have an earthly organization. I lean towards the notion that man has it all wrong.

I'll say this, Joseph Smith of the Mormons/LDS said something in one of his writings that resonated with me. As he listened in on and looked around at all the religious bickering and fighting he said, "Surely God cannot be the author of all this confusion". (Should be a close paraphrase.) I find myself thinking the same thing many days.

11

What degree of accuracy and consistency do you feel it's fair to hold today's religions to?

by The_Present_Truth in

as most of us know, if you look at most any religion today you might see bit of good and bits of bad, bits of truth and bits of falsehood, some christian teachings, some pagan practices & origins.

doesn't seem to matter where you look - the jw's included.

so i find myself asking myself, "to what degree of accuracy and consistency is it fair to hold today's religions to?".

The_Present_Truth

As most of us know, if you look at most any religion today you might see bit of good and bits of bad, bits of truth and bits of falsehood, some Christian teachings, some pagan practices & origins. Doesn't seem to matter where you look - the JW's included. So I find myself asking myself, "To what degree of accuracy and consistency is it fair to hold today's religions to?". Have you ever had that thought run through your mind? Are we overly critical of them (religions) now that we've seen the "light" in regards to the bill of goods we'd been sold by the WTBTS and now we just can't/won't believe anything? I find it near impossible to assign my beliefs to any of them that I've looked at. I mean, I have a friend that's a Mormon/ LDS and he's a super guy - as is his family, but the LDS beliefs! Wow ... have you checked them out? Beliefs in cities, peoples and events (battles for instance) that there is no other historical record of other than the Book of Mormon and their other publications? C'mon. Then there's the secret handshakes (sacred handshakes - for real) and "magic underwear" (protective undergarments). Nice people, don't get me wrong. But even when I try to buy into their beliefs I just can't. Some of it I could I can see myself buying and that all the other weird stuff and inconsistencies show up right behind the logical stuff and I'm back to square one.

The next question it prompts is, "How accurate do you think a loving god requires "US" to get it?" I mean if being off by a bit is ok for one group, then why not another, and if another, then why not all?

As most of us here know, just because you believe something- it doesn't mean you've got it right.

Appreciate your thoughts.

The_Present_Truth

28

What Did You Expect to Do During the 1,000 Years?

by Ding in

for those who were jws, what did you expect to do during the 1,000 year reign?.

since only loyal jws would survive armageddon, it seemed to me that field service and tms would be eliminated.. so what did you expect to do with your time, besides getting rid of the dead bodies and petting lions?.

The_Present_Truth

Great thread. Lady Lee raises some valid points. Most JW's don't consider the many, many, many layers of processes and materials necessary to have the modern conveniences that we have today. When you think of the vast amount of products, services, and capabilities that are dependant just on oil alone and the distillation of it you begin to see that there could be a huge gap after the Armageddon that we were taught about. After all, how many petroleum engineers are there in the JW Organization? Very few I suspect since higher education has been frowned on nearly as long as I've been alive. How about geologists? Any seismic engineers out there? I mean you have to find it, produce it, transport it, seperate it, distill it .... it goes on and on - and that's just one area that has dozens and dozens of layers.

I once put the question to my parents about this. I told them that if indeed the JW's felt that Armageddon was right around the corner, why wouldn't the brothers and sisters be making it a point, in a structured way, to have some brothers being trained as experts in each of the important fields that we'd need later. Have some working in paper mills so Lady Lee and the rest of us can have toilet paper. Have some brothers working and being trained in the solar energy field. Have some being trained in forestry and lumber. Have some in the mining field. Have some in the equipment manufacturing area. Have some in the foundry area. Have some in the boatbuilding industry. Etc ........

Now granted, there are at this moment JW's working in some of or all of those areas in "some" part of the process. But you'd need knowledge of the process from start to finish.

Oh that's right, God is going to take care of that when they need it. Right now none of that is important. The only thing that is important at this point in time is the door to door work and distributing literature for a billion dollar a year propaganda machine called the WTBTS. My bad ..... what was I thinking trying to be all practical and literal.

However, as to what I had hoped to do in the thousand years it would be some of these:

Build a boat and sail around the world in no hurry.

Plant a grove of Black Walnut trees, Redwoods, and Western Red Cedars that one day I would harvest and use in the construction of a handcrafted home.

Learn to play guitar and the piano.

Maybe give Job's daughters a look or two. They were supposed to be pretty hot. Wouldn't mind seeing what the "most beautiful in the land" translates into from the Bible's standpoint.

I wanted to spend time traveling Alaska - in no hurry. Maybe the whole western coast.

I've always wanted to swim with Great White Sharks. I'll do that anyway in this life. It's on my list of things to do. Go down in scuba gear in a cage and be face to face with them.

I was looking forward to using all that extra brain power that supposedly we're not privy to as imperfect humans. The possibilities seemed endless.

Oh well, going to get to as much of it as I can this side of the big nap. The other side will take care of itself. Or not. I'm not going to worry myself with it.

39

Need advice about JW boyfriend

by tryingtolove in

i have been with my jw boyfriend for about a year and a half.

he was living with his parents when we first started dating, but now we are living together.

his mother knows, but not his father (who is the one who got them into the jw's and is more strict about it).

The_Present_Truth

Welcome to the forum TryingtoLove.

I too was the JW boyfriend that became the husband of a girl raised as a Catholic. I'm glad she stuck with me. We had some rough patches mostly because of the mindf*cking that religion, their members, and my family continually tried to dish out to me. But finally I found this site and some of the others and read a few books like "Captives of a Concept" (my personal favorite), "Crisis of Conscience", and "Combatting Cult Mind Control". Together they freed me mentally. Before that though there were many days I felt like I was "broken". All the pieces of me were there but I couldn't get them to straighten up, act right and perform at 100% capacity as a normal person should. Fortunately my wife is a strong, independent woman -free of any baggage like I was carrying. She helped me through when I got low.

What you have to ask yourself is "How strong am I?". If his past and his family shunning him begins to weigh him down metally to the point that he gets depressed and can't/ doesn't perform, are you able to step up and tow the line for both of you? You may need to. It's entirely possible that he's an awesome individual that just happened to be born into the wrong family who was associated with a destructive cult. Short of that last detail he may make for a great partner. But it could be a long trip getting him there. You need to know this ahead of time.

I think those of us who leave are all a little bit "broken" at first in some way. I mean, you have to realize that the entire value system and belief system that we built our lives around is discovered to be a sham. It's puts you back to square one, and you find yourself needing to rebuild from there. As a person who has been on the roller coaster ride of emotions I can humbly tell you that it's not easy, but it can be done, and I've never been happier in my life. Start to finish though, from the time I first started seeing problems with the Witnesses organization it took me about 15 years to finally get to the point where this weekend I'm writing the letter to disassociate myself from them formally and overnighting it this next week. Are you up for a possibly rough 15 years? It could happen, and you need to be prepared for it and go into it eyes wide open.

I wish you the best in whatever you decide.

The_Present_Truth

40

MY FIRST POST!!!!!

by drewcoul in

jw
friends

i have been reading this website for months now.

i am a born in who holds absolutely no animosity toward any witness.

i have had weeks and weeks of trouble trying to log in, but i'm here now.. long story short, i am one of 4 children who were raised as witnesses.

The_Present_Truth

Welcome Drewcoul.

Enjoyed your first post and will look forward to more. Your discomfort with the notion that Elders are appointed by Holy Spirit is shared by me. I could recite story after story about elders who were anything but "Spirit worthy" - one who was molesting boys in the congregation when he'd take them on trips in his motor home, another who hooked up with a 16 year old girl on the internet and ran away with her, leaving his wife and two daughters in the lurch, only to be arrested and go to jail for statutory rape and kidnapping a minor. Nice huh? So Holy Spirit working there.

You seem at peace in your words for the most part. That's a blessing. Make it a daily goal to spend more time looking forward than looking back.

We'll look forward to seeing you around.

The_Present_Truth

166

MUST READ AlanF's email to Knocking.org

by sf in

this is a must-read that, hopefully, will stay an "active topic" for all seekers and lurkers, by bumping it to the top as often as possible.

alan wrote it in randys {dogpatch} thread regarding knocking.org documentary and in reply to the email mr. engardio sent to barbara anderson.

however, it is so vital a read that it indeed needs its own thread:.

The_Present_Truth

Awesome. Spot on. I'll give it two thumbs up and a bump. I wish I could tie each of my family members to a chair and read that letter to them over and over until it sunk in. But I digress ....

The_Present_Truth

Posts by The_Present_Truth