From what I've read, isn't being a Messianic Jew a bit of an oxymoron? It's like oil and water. Am I wrong Moshe? (I've been reading on the site link you posted. Very interesting.)
The_Present_Truth
The_Present_Truth
JoinedPosts by The_Present_Truth
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48
Former Jehovah's Witnesses..... becomes a Jewish Rabbi !
by koolaid-man informer jehovah's witnesses,craig emswiller is now a jewish rabbi, and is speaking up on the dialogue progam today sat.
nov,27, 2010, 7pm est.
dialouge is hosted by former jehovah's witnesses presiding overseer and watchtower historian richard rawe.
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What degree of accuracy and consistency do you feel it's fair to hold today's religions to?
by The_Present_Truth inas most of us know, if you look at most any religion today you might see bit of good and bits of bad, bits of truth and bits of falsehood, some christian teachings, some pagan practices & origins.
doesn't seem to matter where you look - the jw's included.
so i find myself asking myself, "to what degree of accuracy and consistency is it fair to hold today's religions to?".
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The_Present_Truth
And I guess that's kind of my point Agonus, if we're incapable of knowing for sure that what we're subscribing to is the absolute accurate truth, then how could God punish the majority of followers of today's religions? They're likely as blinded as we were.
I do agree that it's, at a minimum, fair to hold them to the same standards that they set for themselves and others. Unfortunately when they live by the sword, they often times die by the sword. The JW's especially.
And yes, in the case of JW's or the WTBTS, when they claim they are "God's ONE chosen channel of communication" ...that sets the bar pretty darn high.
I guess my fear is that I may start holding my faith to the same standards that I hold matters of science - needing proof, continuity, etc. (Terry would be salivating over this statement.) And often times I can see the point that Terry makes in his writings. Where I find myself leaning today though is a firm belief in God, but a God who doesn't have an earthly organization. I lean towards the notion that man has it all wrong.
I'll say this, Joseph Smith of the Mormons/LDS said something in one of his writings that resonated with me. As he listened in on and looked around at all the religious bickering and fighting he said, "Surely God cannot be the author of all this confusion". (Should be a close paraphrase.) I find myself thinking the same thing many days.
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What degree of accuracy and consistency do you feel it's fair to hold today's religions to?
by The_Present_Truth inas most of us know, if you look at most any religion today you might see bit of good and bits of bad, bits of truth and bits of falsehood, some christian teachings, some pagan practices & origins.
doesn't seem to matter where you look - the jw's included.
so i find myself asking myself, "to what degree of accuracy and consistency is it fair to hold today's religions to?".
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The_Present_Truth
As most of us know, if you look at most any religion today you might see bit of good and bits of bad, bits of truth and bits of falsehood, some Christian teachings, some pagan practices & origins. Doesn't seem to matter where you look - the JW's included. So I find myself asking myself, "To what degree of accuracy and consistency is it fair to hold today's religions to?". Have you ever had that thought run through your mind? Are we overly critical of them (religions) now that we've seen the "light" in regards to the bill of goods we'd been sold by the WTBTS and now we just can't/won't believe anything? I find it near impossible to assign my beliefs to any of them that I've looked at. I mean, I have a friend that's a Mormon/ LDS and he's a super guy - as is his family, but the LDS beliefs! Wow ... have you checked them out? Beliefs in cities, peoples and events (battles for instance) that there is no other historical record of other than the Book of Mormon and their other publications? C'mon. Then there's the secret handshakes (sacred handshakes - for real) and "magic underwear" (protective undergarments). Nice people, don't get me wrong. But even when I try to buy into their beliefs I just can't. Some of it I could I can see myself buying and that all the other weird stuff and inconsistencies show up right behind the logical stuff and I'm back to square one.
The next question it prompts is, "How accurate do you think a loving god requires "US" to get it?" I mean if being off by a bit is ok for one group, then why not another, and if another, then why not all?
As most of us here know, just because you believe something- it doesn't mean you've got it right.
Appreciate your thoughts.
The_Present_Truth
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What Did You Expect to Do During the 1,000 Years?
by Ding infor those who were jws, what did you expect to do during the 1,000 year reign?.
since only loyal jws would survive armageddon, it seemed to me that field service and tms would be eliminated.. so what did you expect to do with your time, besides getting rid of the dead bodies and petting lions?.
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The_Present_Truth
Great thread. Lady Lee raises some valid points. Most JW's don't consider the many, many, many layers of processes and materials necessary to have the modern conveniences that we have today. When you think of the vast amount of products, services, and capabilities that are dependant just on oil alone and the distillation of it you begin to see that there could be a huge gap after the Armageddon that we were taught about. After all, how many petroleum engineers are there in the JW Organization? Very few I suspect since higher education has been frowned on nearly as long as I've been alive. How about geologists? Any seismic engineers out there? I mean you have to find it, produce it, transport it, seperate it, distill it .... it goes on and on - and that's just one area that has dozens and dozens of layers.
I once put the question to my parents about this. I told them that if indeed the JW's felt that Armageddon was right around the corner, why wouldn't the brothers and sisters be making it a point, in a structured way, to have some brothers being trained as experts in each of the important fields that we'd need later. Have some working in paper mills so Lady Lee and the rest of us can have toilet paper. Have some brothers working and being trained in the solar energy field. Have some being trained in forestry and lumber. Have some in the mining field. Have some in the equipment manufacturing area. Have some in the foundry area. Have some in the boatbuilding industry. Etc ........
Now granted, there are at this moment JW's working in some of or all of those areas in "some" part of the process. But you'd need knowledge of the process from start to finish.
Oh that's right, God is going to take care of that when they need it. Right now none of that is important. The only thing that is important at this point in time is the door to door work and distributing literature for a billion dollar a year propaganda machine called the WTBTS. My bad ..... what was I thinking trying to be all practical and literal.
However, as to what I had hoped to do in the thousand years it would be some of these:
Build a boat and sail around the world in no hurry.
Plant a grove of Black Walnut trees, Redwoods, and Western Red Cedars that one day I would harvest and use in the construction of a handcrafted home.
Learn to play guitar and the piano.
Maybe give Job's daughters a look or two. They were supposed to be pretty hot. Wouldn't mind seeing what the "most beautiful in the land" translates into from the Bible's standpoint.
I wanted to spend time traveling Alaska - in no hurry. Maybe the whole western coast.
I've always wanted to swim with Great White Sharks. I'll do that anyway in this life. It's on my list of things to do. Go down in scuba gear in a cage and be face to face with them.
I was looking forward to using all that extra brain power that supposedly we're not privy to as imperfect humans. The possibilities seemed endless.
Oh well, going to get to as much of it as I can this side of the big nap. The other side will take care of itself. Or not. I'm not going to worry myself with it.
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Need advice about JW boyfriend
by tryingtolove ini have been with my jw boyfriend for about a year and a half.
he was living with his parents when we first started dating, but now we are living together.
his mother knows, but not his father (who is the one who got them into the jw's and is more strict about it).
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The_Present_Truth
Welcome to the forum TryingtoLove.
I too was the JW boyfriend that became the husband of a girl raised as a Catholic. I'm glad she stuck with me. We had some rough patches mostly because of the mindf*cking that religion, their members, and my family continually tried to dish out to me. But finally I found this site and some of the others and read a few books like "Captives of a Concept" (my personal favorite), "Crisis of Conscience", and "Combatting Cult Mind Control". Together they freed me mentally. Before that though there were many days I felt like I was "broken". All the pieces of me were there but I couldn't get them to straighten up, act right and perform at 100% capacity as a normal person should. Fortunately my wife is a strong, independent woman -free of any baggage like I was carrying. She helped me through when I got low.
What you have to ask yourself is "How strong am I?". If his past and his family shunning him begins to weigh him down metally to the point that he gets depressed and can't/ doesn't perform, are you able to step up and tow the line for both of you? You may need to. It's entirely possible that he's an awesome individual that just happened to be born into the wrong family who was associated with a destructive cult. Short of that last detail he may make for a great partner. But it could be a long trip getting him there. You need to know this ahead of time.
I think those of us who leave are all a little bit "broken" at first in some way. I mean, you have to realize that the entire value system and belief system that we built our lives around is discovered to be a sham. It's puts you back to square one, and you find yourself needing to rebuild from there. As a person who has been on the roller coaster ride of emotions I can humbly tell you that it's not easy, but it can be done, and I've never been happier in my life. Start to finish though, from the time I first started seeing problems with the Witnesses organization it took me about 15 years to finally get to the point where this weekend I'm writing the letter to disassociate myself from them formally and overnighting it this next week. Are you up for a possibly rough 15 years? It could happen, and you need to be prepared for it and go into it eyes wide open.
I wish you the best in whatever you decide.
The_Present_Truth
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MY FIRST POST!!!!!
by drewcoul ini have been reading this website for months now.
i am a born in who holds absolutely no animosity toward any witness.
i have had weeks and weeks of trouble trying to log in, but i'm here now.. long story short, i am one of 4 children who were raised as witnesses.
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The_Present_Truth
Welcome Drewcoul.
Enjoyed your first post and will look forward to more. Your discomfort with the notion that Elders are appointed by Holy Spirit is shared by me. I could recite story after story about elders who were anything but "Spirit worthy" - one who was molesting boys in the congregation when he'd take them on trips in his motor home, another who hooked up with a 16 year old girl on the internet and ran away with her, leaving his wife and two daughters in the lurch, only to be arrested and go to jail for statutory rape and kidnapping a minor. Nice huh? So Holy Spirit working there.
You seem at peace in your words for the most part. That's a blessing. Make it a daily goal to spend more time looking forward than looking back.
We'll look forward to seeing you around.
The_Present_Truth
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**MUST READ** AlanF's email to Knocking.org
by sf inthis is a must-read that, hopefully, will stay an "active topic" for all seekers and lurkers, by bumping it to the top as often as possible.
alan wrote it in randys {dogpatch} thread regarding knocking.org documentary and in reply to the email mr. engardio sent to barbara anderson.
however, it is so vital a read that it indeed needs its own thread:.
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The_Present_Truth
Awesome. Spot on. I'll give it two thumbs up and a bump. I wish I could tie each of my family members to a chair and read that letter to them over and over until it sunk in. But I digress ....
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My Apologies to Christians.
by AK - Jeff ini have, on occasion, pissed off many or most of the christians on this board.
i have forthrightly ridiculed you at times, but more often, i have lathered satire, or frothed sarcasm at what appeared to me to be inanely ludicrous viewpoint.. i must apologize, for i have seen the light.. i now understand that all of mankind's' plight can indeed be traced to a day in a perfect garden in iraq.
an eloquent snake overcame a naked woman with words that rang truer to her than the words of her master and god.
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The_Present_Truth
Always enjoy your posts AK-Jeff. These days I tend to share your sentiments.
The_Present_Truth
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Audio: Witnesses reaction to their private Watchtower being called "Koolaid Edition"
by kurtbethel inhere is an audio clip from a study where the witnesses are handing out a watchtower and awake, and promoting their benefit.
then the householder asks about the "koolaid edition".
one of the acts surprised and the other one quickly goes into damage control mode trying to explain the term.. very funny, sweet beverage indeed!.
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The_Present_Truth
I think I could come up with all kinds of quotes to put in a bubble over this guys head. He's probably some dude that works in the accounting dept in Brooklyn and was asked to pose for a picture in the Awake. Then to find out his pic is all over the internet with all kinds of quotes attached to it. He might be thinking, "uhhhh maybe that wasn't such a great idea".
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Audio: Witnesses reaction to their private Watchtower being called "Koolaid Edition"
by kurtbethel inhere is an audio clip from a study where the witnesses are handing out a watchtower and awake, and promoting their benefit.
then the householder asks about the "koolaid edition".
one of the acts surprised and the other one quickly goes into damage control mode trying to explain the term.. very funny, sweet beverage indeed!.
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The_Present_Truth
Tell me there's not a photoshop opportunity waiting to happen with the dude on the second page of the November 2010 Awake on the Table of Contents page?