Saved_JW

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Posts by Saved_JW

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  56

  OK friends lets be honest, if a Nuclear Holocaust took place today how many of you would return to the KH?

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  speaking for my self, no way in hell.. this question to see if you really have been deprogramed,.

  do you 100% believe it is not the truth.. a fourth of the world hit by a nuclear attack..

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  Saved_JW

  If there was a nuclear holocaust I am not convinced a Kingdom Hall would be the best place to hide, I would go for a bomb shelter or a school gym, it would be a lot safer
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  34

  Do most ex JW's go politically left?

  by Lightgrowsbrighter in

  1. social
  2. current

  i've found it interesting that- imho- most of the politically vocal ex-jw's at this website seem to lean left.

  i'm personally pretty centered- right on some issues, left on others, but overall have a pretty cynical view of all political/religious leaders.

  i find it somewhat ironic that people who leave such a dogmatic group like the witnesses become so politically dogmatic.

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  Saved_JW

  Excellent observation!

  I tend to think you are correct. For a number of different reasons.

  1- The hope of Paradise earth is centered on a style of government resembling Socialism.
  
  Think about it, everybody helps each other build their houses in a perfect utopia where nothing costs money.
  
  2- Clean energy
  
  The paradise earth assumes that everything is going to be environmentally perfect. Everybody will have a share in cleaning up the earth to its original state. This align perfectly with a left of center political ideal.
  
  3- Welfare State
  
  Jehovah's Witnesses take HUGE advantage of the welfare state. Most Pioneers depend on this to supplement their income. Like a parasite which feeds off the host of the most productive/educated in society, JW's bite the hand that feeds them. On one hand they condemn education and government, on the other hand they will freely take advantage of those laws passed that benefit them financially. This would mean their opinions would more likely align with the Left. [of course they abuse the system, by no means am I saying the welfare programs are wrong and not beneficial for those who actually need them]
  
  
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  27

  Why didn't Jehovah know the flood wouldn't work?

  by OverlappingGeneralizations in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this has been something that is bugging me lately-.

  jehovah is all knowing.

  he knows that to do away with evil, he has to do away with satan.

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  Saved_JW

  1- The purpose of the flood was never to "Do away with evil" it was a just punishment according to his righteous standards. I can say this since there was a prophecy in the garden that the seed of Eve would bruise Satan in the head. This was not to be done away with at the flood, instead it would be accomplished on the cross.

  2- Preserving Satan allows Gods purposes to be accomplished in the end. God will allow evil to exist to fulfill his ultimate purpose in creation, namely for His Glory.
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  72

  CEDARS (Again) Is it really about religious beliefs?

  by Listener in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  john cedars has posted his latest blog "the trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn't put you off becoming one)".

  i acknowledge that he is entitled to his opionin just as we are ours but i am disappointed in some of his comments.. at this stage i'll try to be objective about it.

  he is defending his own position after all.. what bothers me most is his comments about athiests and christians which he seems to identify as being in conflict with each other.

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  Saved_JW

  In my opinion, Cedars videos are a response to a very recent debate that I had with him on Facebook.

  IN a nutshell, I was demonstrating to him the problems with Atheism philosophically, along with justifying the existence of God.
  
  I had previously challenged Cedars in a vdeo which was very well balanced, no personal attacks whatsoever. It was a very respectful critique of his worldview. What is ironic, is that Cedars responded to that video by mocking me and my beliefs on his Facebook thread with other people.
  
  I think Cedars has a very deep emotional hatred towards Christians but feigns neutrality for the sake of his viewership. This mini debate on FB prob. pushed him over the edge.
  
  I will be excited to see the videos he will be posting, at least he will not be giving us a front anymore. It will be good for the viewers to see the authentic John Cedars for once. And I will be happy to respond.
  
  
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  24

  Churches helping neighbors instead of JW"s

  by life is to short in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  last week where i live we had the worst wind storm in the history of our area.

  we had gust of 71 miles an hour from 3 in the afternoon till 8 at night.

  it was like a hurricane at times the wind did sound like a freight train.

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  Saved_JW

  @Life short, are you in Spokane? if so that's where I am!
• 
  47

  Since you left, have you become more moral?

  by Coded Logic in

  1. social
  2. family

  respect.

  sympathy.

  gossip.

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  Saved_JW

  In regards to:

  Respect

  Sympathy

  Gossip

  Intellectual Honesty

  Fairness

  Family

  Equality

  Cost/Benefit

  Epistemology

  etc.

  . . . ?

  Scratching my head wondering what "Moral" standard these traits come from? Especially Equality. Are these supposed to be socially determined moral standards? Just confused
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  68

  My Explanation of God.

  by LAWHFol in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am a theist & this is my version of god.. instead of using the term god, i'll use "unseen presence".. this unseen presence, is perfect in every way.

  this presence is so perfect it can seem a bit boring.this perfection can be seen in the laws of science, for example gravity.. it does not sometimes work, depending on the mood of some one in the sky, it always works, perfectly.

  gravity does not get angry and decide to stop working, and cause the death of innumerable living beings, it just works, through thick or thin, it is reliable.. what allows this unseen presence to remain perfect, is the fact that it does not act based on emotion, or strategy or regret.. it acts based on law, mathematical law.. this unseen presence is not partial to jews or muslims or jw's it is completely impartial at all times, to everything that exists.

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  Saved_JW

  Atheism simply means a lack of belief in gods, goddesses, spirits, a spirit world, fairies, etc. It makes no claims about the world, senses, etc

  I said atheism makes no assumptions, not atheists

  Sooo...a lack of BELIEF in Gods, goddesses, spirits...is NOT an assumption about the existence of god[s]?
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  68

  My Explanation of God.

  by LAWHFol in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am a theist & this is my version of god.. instead of using the term god, i'll use "unseen presence".. this unseen presence, is perfect in every way.

  this presence is so perfect it can seem a bit boring.this perfection can be seen in the laws of science, for example gravity.. it does not sometimes work, depending on the mood of some one in the sky, it always works, perfectly.

  gravity does not get angry and decide to stop working, and cause the death of innumerable living beings, it just works, through thick or thin, it is reliable.. what allows this unseen presence to remain perfect, is the fact that it does not act based on emotion, or strategy or regret.. it acts based on law, mathematical law.. this unseen presence is not partial to jews or muslims or jw's it is completely impartial at all times, to everything that exists.

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  Saved_JW

  Atheism makes no assumptions about reality. Neither does science (which, in fact, has shown we cannot trust our senses quite often).

  @Viviane, I hate to break it to ya, but this statement is not only ignorant, but very unscientific. Without Assumptions about reality, we would not even have Science. Science MUST by necessity make assumptions about the natural world in order to test a hypothesis in the first place.

  Ill give you an example: Cognitive processes in the brain can be trusted to interpret the natural world.

  If what you say is true [science does not make assumptions] then there would be no reason to conduct an experiment since...well...the neurons bouncing around in my brain is not a reliable source of gathering data, nor can it be trusted to actually process data about nature. Well we know this isn't the case.
  
  Science as an ASSUMPTION will take for granted that our cognitive process is reliable. It assumes that the neurons in our brain can in fact interpret data correctly, and test theories based on it.
  
  Another huge assumption that Science makes is that Nature is generally predictable. In other words, the future resembles the past. A prime example of this is Carbon Dating. We have to first assume that nature has not significantly changed in the way carbon molecules decompose over time. We use present day decomposition rates of carbon and read that BACK into the data. This assumes that nature is consistent over time.
  
  I could go on and on with numerous examples of scientific assumptions.
  
  Now, when it comes to Atheists making assumptions, this is a lot different then scientists making assumptions.
  I gave an example of Richard Dawkins using an assumption of people having "Delusions" for belief in God. This of course assumes that there is a standard for sanity in the first place! [correct thinking] So there you have it, an Atheist [or Agnostic] who makes assumptions.
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  68

  My Explanation of God.

  by LAWHFol in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am a theist & this is my version of god.. instead of using the term god, i'll use "unseen presence".. this unseen presence, is perfect in every way.

  this presence is so perfect it can seem a bit boring.this perfection can be seen in the laws of science, for example gravity.. it does not sometimes work, depending on the mood of some one in the sky, it always works, perfectly.

  gravity does not get angry and decide to stop working, and cause the death of innumerable living beings, it just works, through thick or thin, it is reliable.. what allows this unseen presence to remain perfect, is the fact that it does not act based on emotion, or strategy or regret.. it acts based on law, mathematical law.. this unseen presence is not partial to jews or muslims or jw's it is completely impartial at all times, to everything that exists.

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  Saved_JW

  True intellectual honesty says that one has to accept the unknown(s) or the yet to be discovered.
  

  I think humanity is better off dealing with accepted reality of are selves and the world in which we live in.

  If there is a discovery of a god of supernatural appearance then that will be become a known for humanity

  I am going to get philosophical here: The question of "Reality" has been a constant struggle for thousands of years. Even the ancient Greeks struggled to answer that question. Plato and Aristotle had to dig deeper and look to our ASSUMPTIONS of what "Reality" was in the first place. Is "reality" simply limited to our senses? [see,taste, hear, feel, smell] That may be a good assumption, however there are many cases where we cannot trust our assumptions.
  
  What I find funny is the famous Atheist Richard Dawkins titled a book "the God Delusion" The basic Atheistic assumption about reality is that you CAN trust your empirical senses as a measurement for reality. I find it ironic that the very title of his book assumes that people can in fact have a Delusion of reality based on their senses.
  The implications of this are huge. In some ways, Richard Dawkins admits that people cant [in fact] trust their senses.
  
  This brings us back to the post. You stated that intellectual honesty must start with "Accepted reality"
  Here is the problem with that assertion.... This is an argument from consensus. If the majority of people accept a reality, this must mean its true. I would challenge this. If 99.9% of people accept that 1+1=5, this does not make it true. There is a correct answer that exists outside the mind, in other words, a universal truth that is not dependent on the mind itself.
  
  I believe that there is absolute Truth that exists outside the mind. I believe it through deductive reasoning and logic. I don't believe truth is dependent on the mind, instead the mind recognizes and is dependent on truth.

  Truth manifests itself in absolute laws that are fixed [not capricious or random] 1+1 will always = 2; that law of logic is a reliable method of reasoning [There is no such thing as a married bachelor] etc.. I would be willing to go toe to toe on any Atheist on this board who insists on defending a universe without any absolutes.
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  68

  My Explanation of God.

  by LAWHFol in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am a theist & this is my version of god.. instead of using the term god, i'll use "unseen presence".. this unseen presence, is perfect in every way.

  this presence is so perfect it can seem a bit boring.this perfection can be seen in the laws of science, for example gravity.. it does not sometimes work, depending on the mood of some one in the sky, it always works, perfectly.

  gravity does not get angry and decide to stop working, and cause the death of innumerable living beings, it just works, through thick or thin, it is reliable.. what allows this unseen presence to remain perfect, is the fact that it does not act based on emotion, or strategy or regret.. it acts based on law, mathematical law.. this unseen presence is not partial to jews or muslims or jw's it is completely impartial at all times, to everything that exists.

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  Saved_JW

  What your explaining is essentially Ancient Pantheism. What they called "Nature" is what you would call "god"

  Nothing new