Saved_JW

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Posts by Saved_JW

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  20

  Reasons for NOT Returning

  by Saved_JW in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i left the watchtower in the winter of 2008. my first year out was by far the most difficult.

  i had every intention of returning to the watchtower for the very purpose of being able to speak with my friends and family.

  i had already concluded that the teachings were not the "truth" [after reading crisis of conscience] so coming back was more emotional then anything.

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  Saved_JW

  @Bugbear

  I will make a separate thread answering your question
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  2

  Reasons for NOT Returning Pt. 2

  by Saved_JW in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  we know he is our son, the parents answered, and we know he was born blind.

  21 but how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we dont know.

  he is of age; he will speak for himself.

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  Saved_JW

  We know he is our son,” the parents answered, “and we know he was born blind. 21 But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don’t know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself.” 22 His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. 23 That was why his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.” - John 9:20-23

  I talked earlier about the Fear mechanism used in the Watchtower against any dissention in the ranks. This could be for minor thought crimes against the Organization and its leadership, to outright brazen rebellion. Fear is a very effective tool for control. The weakness of this type of manipulation lies in the heart of those being conformed. Fear is effective at outward control, but it is generally not lasting, because it is not rooted in the hearts of those being controlled.

  As you can see in the scripture I posted above. Jesus clearly did a miracle in the life of a blind man. The takeaway of this miracle was that before Jesus he was blind [physically and Spiritually] but after he was awake. Jesus told him not to tell anybody, but he couldn't help himself. He had to tell others about the EXPERIENCE he had with Jesus.

  The Pharisees of course saw this as a threat because they had religious control over the minds of the people [not the hearts] They used FEAR as a way to manipulate people into conformity. The parents of this man were brought before a Judicial committee to comment on what had happened. Of course they knew full well what happened, but out of fear, they caved into pressure and lied because they did not want to be cast out of the Synagogue.

  History of the Synagogue

  This is an important factor to consider because during Jesus time, the Synagogue was central to the life of a Jew. In small communities you would find your entire family there. Not only for religious purposes, but the Synagogue was vastly important to business. Your family trade was tied into the social contacts forged at the Synagogue.

  Needless to say, being kicked out of the Synagogue wasn't as easy as simply moving from one church to another. It meant a complete disconnect from family ties, relationships, economic bankruptcy, and social ostracism. In fact, many people who converted to Christianity would not only be kicked out, the family and community would hold a funeral service for them!
  
  Jesus knew the implications of his message. He knew that this message was not meant to unite people, it was meant to divide. Because that is what truth does. For those who have ears to hear, for those who have eyes to see, they will follow Jesus. The rest despise it. There is no middle ground when it comes to Jesus. You either faithfully follow him, or you hate Him.

  Drawing the Parallel

  In some respects, I feel for the parents of this man. I cant tell you how many times I have considered compromising what I believe for the comforts of the familiar. It would be so easy to just make everybody happy. All I have to do is attend meetings for a year, underline in my Watchtower, and sooner or later I will be reinstated!
  
  

  My calling is a different path. I will not be governed by fear. I will live my life with confidence and Integrity.

  I recall two different conversations I had with my father and my brother:
  
  A few years ago I was talking with my dad who was imploring me to return. He made it sound so easy. Here was the problem.
  I asked him: "Dad, I remember you telling me that Integrity was the best virtue we can have. I am trying my hardest to align myself with that value. that being said, you want me to return to the Watchtower, the only problem is...I don't believe it [For the reasons we discussed in the conversation] So would you advise that I return to the Watchtower, even though I don't believe it?"
  
  His answer after much hesitation was...no.

  
  I replied: "For this reason, there is no amount of shunning or fear that will manipulate me back into the Watchtower. Its not on the basis of fear that will motivate me, it will be on the basis of TRUTH!" Either the Watchtower is true or its not. If you want me to discuss those specific reasons for which I disagree I would be more then happy to go over that.
  
  I had the same type of conversation with my brother.
  
  I think the takeaway from this conversation was more respect for my position. They understand that social manipulation is not an effective means for controlling me. If they really want me to return, they will have to understand the depths of disagreements I have and responds to those.

  I can only hope that someday they will

  I
• 
  20

  Reasons for NOT Returning

  by Saved_JW in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i left the watchtower in the winter of 2008. my first year out was by far the most difficult.

  i had every intention of returning to the watchtower for the very purpose of being able to speak with my friends and family.

  i had already concluded that the teachings were not the "truth" [after reading crisis of conscience] so coming back was more emotional then anything.

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  Saved_JW

  I left the Watchtower in the Winter of 2008. My first year out was by far the most difficult. I had every intention of returning to the Watchtower for the very purpose of being able to speak with my friends and family. I had already concluded that the teachings were not the "truth" [after reading Crisis of Conscience] So coming back was more emotional then anything.

  The longer I was away however, the easier it became to deal with the emotional trauma. Much of my coping was being able to talk to struggling Jehovah's Witnesses over the years. I have found that they have helped me more then I had helped them. Its for this reason I wanted to discuss a few of the reasons why I will not return to the Watchtower. I hope that this can help some lurkers on this board who are considering this as an option.
  
  1- Legalism

  Phil 3:7-11
  
  "But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. "

  I look back at my past experience in the Watchtower which was full of Legalism. I was really a slave to the tenants and regulations imposed upon me. I thought of myself as righteous, but in reality, I was living in a way to promote myself, advance myself and give glory to myself, not God. This is exactly what Paul was going through. He had much to boast about himself and his accomplishments as a Pharisee. But looking back, he considered it all garbage when compared to knowing Jesus.
  
  I didn't pick the easiest path. [The Watchtower would have been easier, living by works, and having the social approval of friends and family to reinforce fallacious beliefs] I chose the path that was fulfilling. Because no longer am I about promoting myself, I live for God.

  2- Life of Illusion

  If you think about it. Being in the Watchtower is a lot like being an actor. Jesus actually condemned the Pharisees by calling them hypocrites. This word in greek means "a stage actor"

  In ancient times a stage actor was really at the bottom of the social ladder [unlike today] they made their living pretending to be somebody they are not. This often times meant wearing a mask during a performance. People never really saw WHO the person was , only the person they were portraying.

  Jesus was comparing the Pharisees to these stage actors who wore a religious mask. Who feigned righteousness and piety, but on the inside were wolves.

  What a fitting description of the Watchtower mindset. The Organization itself prides itself on being "Clean" on the outside. But inside is decayed and spiritually dead. They feign righteousness by what they wear and how they act [in public] but the reality is quite different.

  I had to ask myself.... If I return to the Watchtower, would I be comfortable returning to a life of a stage actor? Whats even worse, knowing full well the deceptive nature of the Watchtower, and its false teachings, would I feel comfortable living a life inconsistent with my beliefs?

  IN a way I think that would be worse then the Rank and File JW, at least they live their life in blissful ignorance of the deception before them.

  3- Fake Relationships
  
  

  The Watchtower is masterful at using a mechanism of fear to control and manipulate people into conformity. They do this by social peer pressure. [Yes the very mechanism they preach against in other contexts] The result is a social standard in the JW community governed by fear, not freedom of expression.
  
  This is all but guaranteed with the checks and balances within the authority structure itself. "Independent Thinking" is strongly discouraged and any thought not in conformity to the Organization will quickly be escalated to the elders. The result is relationships that are very shallow. The relationship's are effectively guided and manipulated by social standards that are not genuine. Sure your friends and family will be there for the good times, but what about those times of depression when you really need to be open and honest with them? You can kiss that hope goodbye. These psudo relationships are one of the reason why I did not want to return to the Watchtower.
  
  In fact, I remember a conversation I had with my dad a few years back. One of the things he told me [intentional on encouraging me] was "Love is waiting for you"
  
  I couldn't help but laugh at that statement. What he was really saying was that the natural love a parent has for a child is currently suspended, conditional upon my return to the Watchtower. That was evidence enough for me to rethink the value of the relationships found in the WT, even with family ties.
  
  4- Broken Testimony
  
  Think for a moment about the tidal wave of gossip that possibly surrounded in the Kingdom Hall the moment you left. Many people were left questioning "Why?"
  
  The biggest testimony we have against the Watchtower is to be a shining example of success outside the Watchtower. Whether you realize it or not, people are always wondering how you are doing from time to time. They have to consciously suppress any negative emotion [cognitive dissonance] that may trail behind the reasons for you leaving the Watchtower.

  What if you Returned? Well, there would be no reason for them to suppress those emotions anymore. Their testimony in the Watchtower would then be reinforced as a result of your return. All of that time you spent outside would have been wasted.
  
  One of the things that scared me was what Jesus said at Matthew 10:33
  
  "Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."
  
  The thought of them making that announcement on the stage ____ Is now one of Jehovah's Witnesses.... would be tantamount of denying Jesus for the acceptance of men. No thank you
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  38

  New Word Coined In April 2016 WT!

  by Naoscillator in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  and the word is... .

  canaanitelike!.

  here it is in context, just in case you're curious about how to use this new word.. article: being faithful leads to god's approval.

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  Saved_JW

  Sounds like a name from Star Trek, lol
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  56

  OK friends lets be honest, if a Nuclear Holocaust took place today how many of you would return to the KH?

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  speaking for my self, no way in hell.. this question to see if you really have been deprogramed,.

  do you 100% believe it is not the truth.. a fourth of the world hit by a nuclear attack..

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  Saved_JW

  Truth means without error, the Governing Body has admitted on numerous occasions they make errors, ergo it cannot be true.

  Its a very simple concept. Inconsistency is the first sign of a failed argument/doctrine.
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  56

  OK friends lets be honest, if a Nuclear Holocaust took place today how many of you would return to the KH?

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  speaking for my self, no way in hell.. this question to see if you really have been deprogramed,.

  do you 100% believe it is not the truth.. a fourth of the world hit by a nuclear attack..

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  Saved_JW

  If there was a nuclear holocaust I am not convinced a Kingdom Hall would be the best place to hide, I would go for a bomb shelter or a school gym, it would be a lot safer
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  34

  Do most ex JW's go politically left?

  by Lightgrowsbrighter in

  1. social
  2. current

  i've found it interesting that- imho- most of the politically vocal ex-jw's at this website seem to lean left.

  i'm personally pretty centered- right on some issues, left on others, but overall have a pretty cynical view of all political/religious leaders.

  i find it somewhat ironic that people who leave such a dogmatic group like the witnesses become so politically dogmatic.

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  Saved_JW

  Excellent observation!

  I tend to think you are correct. For a number of different reasons.

  1- The hope of Paradise earth is centered on a style of government resembling Socialism.
  
  Think about it, everybody helps each other build their houses in a perfect utopia where nothing costs money.
  
  2- Clean energy
  
  The paradise earth assumes that everything is going to be environmentally perfect. Everybody will have a share in cleaning up the earth to its original state. This align perfectly with a left of center political ideal.
  
  3- Welfare State
  
  Jehovah's Witnesses take HUGE advantage of the welfare state. Most Pioneers depend on this to supplement their income. Like a parasite which feeds off the host of the most productive/educated in society, JW's bite the hand that feeds them. On one hand they condemn education and government, on the other hand they will freely take advantage of those laws passed that benefit them financially. This would mean their opinions would more likely align with the Left. [of course they abuse the system, by no means am I saying the welfare programs are wrong and not beneficial for those who actually need them]
  
  
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  27

  Why didn't Jehovah know the flood wouldn't work?

  by OverlappingGeneralizations in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this has been something that is bugging me lately-.

  jehovah is all knowing.

  he knows that to do away with evil, he has to do away with satan.

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  Saved_JW

  1- The purpose of the flood was never to "Do away with evil" it was a just punishment according to his righteous standards. I can say this since there was a prophecy in the garden that the seed of Eve would bruise Satan in the head. This was not to be done away with at the flood, instead it would be accomplished on the cross.

  2- Preserving Satan allows Gods purposes to be accomplished in the end. God will allow evil to exist to fulfill his ultimate purpose in creation, namely for His Glory.
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  72

  CEDARS (Again) Is it really about religious beliefs?

  by Listener in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  john cedars has posted his latest blog "the trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn't put you off becoming one)".

  i acknowledge that he is entitled to his opionin just as we are ours but i am disappointed in some of his comments.. at this stage i'll try to be objective about it.

  he is defending his own position after all.. what bothers me most is his comments about athiests and christians which he seems to identify as being in conflict with each other.

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  Saved_JW

  In my opinion, Cedars videos are a response to a very recent debate that I had with him on Facebook.

  IN a nutshell, I was demonstrating to him the problems with Atheism philosophically, along with justifying the existence of God.
  
  I had previously challenged Cedars in a vdeo which was very well balanced, no personal attacks whatsoever. It was a very respectful critique of his worldview. What is ironic, is that Cedars responded to that video by mocking me and my beliefs on his Facebook thread with other people.
  
  I think Cedars has a very deep emotional hatred towards Christians but feigns neutrality for the sake of his viewership. This mini debate on FB prob. pushed him over the edge.
  
  I will be excited to see the videos he will be posting, at least he will not be giving us a front anymore. It will be good for the viewers to see the authentic John Cedars for once. And I will be happy to respond.
  
  
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  24

  Churches helping neighbors instead of JW"s

  by life is to short in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  last week where i live we had the worst wind storm in the history of our area.

  we had gust of 71 miles an hour from 3 in the afternoon till 8 at night.

  it was like a hurricane at times the wind did sound like a freight train.

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  Saved_JW

  @Life short, are you in Spokane? if so that's where I am!