Saved_JW

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Posts by Saved_JW

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  23

  City of Sodom discovered

  by Saved_JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3270999/has-biblical-city-sodom-monstrous-site-jordan-matches-descriptions-area-destroyed-god.html

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  Saved_JW

  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3270999/Has-Biblical-city-Sodom-Monstrous-site-Jordan-matches-descriptions-area-destroyed-God.html
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  13

  (Bible's) God will do whatever he wants

  by Cota Samuel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hello and excuse my not perfect knowledge of english.

  when i've started studying the bible when i was 13 one of the first subjects i was teached was about genesis.

  the first two humans were supposedly perfect which by bible's means it meant that they couldn't die nor get ill. this meant that at least humans couldn't get diseases.

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  Saved_JW

  1- The bible never says man [and women] were created "Perfect" it says after creation they were "good" This is one of those JW doctrines and major Christian assumptions being read into the text.

  I have always had a problem with the word "perfect" used to describe humanity, because quite honestly, if that was the case, we would not have sinned in the first place. The biblical narrative of the fall would make absolutely no sense at all. This of course assumes that we have an accurate understanding of what the word perfect means, Jesus used the word in his ministry and the word used meant "To be made whole" in this context, perfect means a wholeness with God, that does not come from yourself. Being made whole would come from God.

  2- Another error is to think that a "loving God" = All Benevolent. This is a huge assumption that many people get tripped over when they see clear examples of God not being loving in scriptures [example: Flood killing men women and children, God ordering the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Killing the Amorites]

  There is a distinction to be made between God being Loving, and God is Love. The point here is that God is the perfect standard for what love actually is. In other words, God does not conform to an outside standard of this feeling called love, and we can somehow judge from our limited perspective whether or not God conforms to that standard of Love.

  3- Our Choice to Choose him. From what I can see biblically, the Elect of God are chosen before the foundations of the world were set. Read Romans 9, God chose Jacob over Esau "Before they did anything good or bad" our natural state is rebellion against God, this is the sin we all have. Sin separates us from God and our choice is to always do what God hates. Actions will always be based on that predisposed nature for what is bad. It takes an act of God [regeneration] for us to be able to respond to God , and the Holy Spirit to produce "good" works.
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  11

  Do i still believe in GOD?

  by smoky21 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hi, everyonei not new new... i have been here before under a different user, i just forgot my log-in info after a long time...so i created a new one.i from time to time post something.

  usually i just like reading post, cuz you guys are great.i consider myself a atheist.

  i came to this conclusion a few years ago, but i think i have always been skeptical about god's existence.i dont ever remember having experiencing the holy spirit, or anything supernatural good or evil, so i cannot relate to people who have.i always thought i was good person (never steal, fornicated or hurt anyone), yet never felt blessed by god.

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  Saved_JW

  I have to say that in my own case nothing has ever caused me to question my disbelief. There are atheists in foxholes

  @COFTY; I have found that anybody who does not take a step back and question their own assumptions are usually blind to them.

  As a theist, I constantly challenge my own position with new arguments I encounter. This has always been a good way for me to evaluate the consistency of my own point of view. Just a thought.
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  80

  THE WATCHTOWER (STUDY EDITION) JANUARY 2016

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  pdf .

  this issue contains the study articles for february 29 to april 3, 2016.. what about the number of those partaking at the memorial?12, 13. why should we not worry about the number of those who eat the bread and drink the wine at the memorial?12 in recent years, we have seen an increase in the number of those partaking at the memorial of christs death.

  that trend contrasts with the decrease in the number of partakers that we saw for many decades.

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  Saved_JW

  yeah, I was going to say: In a related story, the recent increase in active publishers worldwide includes those who mistakenly got baptized, those who may think they are Jehovah's witnesses and those who have mental issues. So the actual number of Jehovah's Witnesses may not reflect reality
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  24

  Jehovah's Witnesses - People of Integrity

  by Saved_JW in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  when i think of integrity, a lot of positive connotations come to mind.

  i think of individuals grounded in principles, who do not operate on opinions that change based on the breeze of political or social change.

  a life that is directed by a code of morality, not on capricious emotions.

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  Saved_JW

  yes, my entire point is that JW's THINK that they are people of integrity to SCRIPTURE and to God, but the reality is different. They use words like Loyalty to Jehovah, and People of integrity. But when you boil it all down, they are loyal to the Organization which changes all the time. The irony is of course, they are not actually people of integrity when it comes to absolute standards, principles and codes, since the watchtowers codes and standards change all the time. I hope that makes sense. That's the irony I wanted to expose.

  I will edit my post slightly to clarify
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  24

  Jehovah's Witnesses - People of Integrity

  by Saved_JW in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  when i think of integrity, a lot of positive connotations come to mind.

  i think of individuals grounded in principles, who do not operate on opinions that change based on the breeze of political or social change.

  a life that is directed by a code of morality, not on capricious emotions.

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  Saved_JW

  Integrity: the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

  Loyalty: the quality of being loyal to someone or something.

  I used these two terms purposefully, Jehovah's Witnesses are people of strong moral conviction. [Morality defined by the Watchtower] principled only in the sense that those codes conform to Watchtower principles.

  In a way, I am trying to use a play on words to appeal to the JW reader in a hope that they will see the difference between Loyalty to the Watchtower and Loyalty to God. Secondly, people of integrity to the Watchtower or people of integrity to Scripture. I want to show them that contrast.

  I agree to the differences to those terms. no argument with me
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  24

  Jehovah's Witnesses - People of Integrity

  by Saved_JW in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  when i think of integrity, a lot of positive connotations come to mind.

  i think of individuals grounded in principles, who do not operate on opinions that change based on the breeze of political or social change.

  a life that is directed by a code of morality, not on capricious emotions.

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  Saved_JW

  When I think of Integrity, a lot of positive connotations come to mind. I think of individuals grounded in principles, who do not operate on opinions that change based on the breeze of political or social change. A life that is directed by a code of morality, not on capricious emotions.

  People of integrity are the best types of leaders, marriage mates, employees and members of our society.

  It comes as no surprise that the word Integrity is vastly used in the Watchtower society as one of the most important traits an individual can have with their dedication to Jehovah.

  After being out of the Watchtower for the better part of 6 years now, I have had some time to reflect on this important issue of integrity and really ask myself: Are Jehovah's Witnesses people of integrity? and if so, to what? This is what I hope to answer.

  Keeping in step with the Organization

  I remember quite clearly sitting in the hospital room with my JW friends and family after my grandfather had a stroke a few years ago. One of the few opportunities I had to actually be able to talk to them. I sat in the corner of the waiting room listening to the conversations like a shamed fly on the wall. I had the distinct impression that the goal of those seemingly natural conversations about the Watchtower, were intentional and purposeful in an effort to stir me into coming back to the organization.

  In one such conversation, I couldn't help but laugh on the inside. My uncle began to talk about the appointment of the new governing body members. he commented on how young they were, and he never thought he would see the day when he would be the same age as a governing body member [he being a former bethelite himself] The direction of his conversation was meant to convey urgency, as if big changes equates to big events in the near future.

  The conversations continued on, some talk about the direction of the Watchtower, and yet others speaking about the loyalty of the newly appointed governing body members. I couldn't help but notice in the 1/2 hour discussion, not one mention about Jesus or Jehovah. Their hope for the future, their dedication was squarely placed in the direction of the Watchtower Society.

  After the conversations simmered down and my family funneled out of the waiting room, my father just sat there reading a magazine from the table. I sat next to him and talked to him about some of the issues I had with the Watchtower. These issues were placed squarely on doctrinal issues that contradict the bible. I showed him right from the bible the problems with the 144,000 doctrine, and having a two class salvation cannot work scripturally. Either you are saved or you aren't. Either you have Jesus as your mediator, or something else must take Jesus place. [See Romans 8; Revelation 19]

  He looked in wonder as I showed him from Revelation 19 that the "Great Crowd" was actually In heaven. I responded to him by saying. "So you see the reason why I cannot return to the Watchtower. It isn't because im bitter with God, it isn't because I have a grudge. I cannot return as a matter of integrity. I cannot in good conscience claim to be a Jehovah's Witness, when the very doctrines they promote contradict scripture. Even worse, they [the Governing Body] replace the role of Jesus as mediator in the life of the believer."

  My dad recognizing the clear contradiction in scripture to the Watchtower sat there completely puzzled. Which isn't something that I am used to. He is a congregation secretary, he always had the right answers, a very smart and quick witted man. His reply to me was one of the most impactful yet revealing things that exposed much of the Jehovah's Witness mentality.

  He said " you know, the most important thing that we can do right now is recognize that the Governing Body will never lead us astray, they have our best interests at heart. that's why its important for all of us to keep in step with Gods organization."

  Loyalty to who?

  My dad's unscripted heartfelt reply is not unlike what most JW's will say when confronted with a dilemma of this magnitude. Yet at the same time, his reply revealed a huge amount of information as to the true source of his loyalty.

  you see, at the end of the day, when presented with clear biblical evidence of a contradiction from Watchtower policy to Biblical doctrine. His knee jerk reaction WAS NOT to set aside his Watchtower bias, but instead, set aside altogether the bible in leau of trust in the Watchtower.

  His comment "The Watchtower has our best interests at heart" revealed to me that all information, all judgment calls are filtered through that one emotional presupposition. Namely, that the Watchtower cares. As long as the Watchtower cares about him, they will always do what is right, even when they are wrong, they will still correct themselves. In his mind, Jehovah will look past even the most blatant unbiblical doctrines that he is following, because the most important thing is that he is loyal to the Organization.

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses people of Integrity?

  the short answer to this is YES. Jehovah's Witnesses are some of the most loyal people around. But that really depends on the OBJECT of your loyalty. Their loyalty at the end of the day is grounded not on scripture, but instead the Watchtower society who interprets scripture for them.

  What this means is, on the surface , Jehovah's Witnesses will think they are loyal to Jehovah and to the bible, but practically and functionally are actually loyal to the Organization. If a Watchtower doctrine contradicts scripture, they will always side with the Watchtowers interpretation, they will put trust that "Jehovah will correct things in time" or "we are to keep in step with Gods organization" these are all sayings that reveal the true source of integrity. Willing to compromise the truth of scripture for the doctrines of man. What this also means is that their principles are not grounded in any code that is absolute and timeless, they are grounded in a code that constantly changes based on cultural changes dictated by the Watchtower. The Watchtower of today is vastly different then the Watchtower of 1980, so on and so forth.

  When Jehovah's Witnesses dedicate their lives to "Jehovah" they are in reality dedicating themselves to an Organization knowing that todays truth is tomorrows lie and heresy. They are completely willing to dedicate themselves to a code of change that they know nothing about in the future. Completely willing to submit to the direction of an Organization, simply because "they have our best interests at heart"
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  9

  what is truth - Pilate asked Jesus

  by Ruby456 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think pilate was being socratic when he asked jesus - what is truth?.

  my question is to do with whether or not jesus was also being socratic when he said he had come to bear witness to the truth.

  my idea is that both pilate and jesus were talking about a kind of ethics to live.

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  Saved_JW

  Your right, I mean Rhetorical! lol. I defiantly know the difference between the two
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  94

  What other Shenanigans can we expect to see in the next 2 years?

  by John Aquila in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  its been a little over 2 years since i left the watchtower.

  in that time the magazines have been cut, the birth of jwtv, jw-org.

  carts for preaching, removed district overseers, cut assemblies, demand all the money from the congregations, stop construction and layoff bethelites, change the format of the tmschool .

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  Saved_JW

  I suspect a much greater emphasis on cart witnessing, door to door evangelism is not effective with bringing people to the kingdom halls.

  I also suspect changes in the way people are disfellowshipped. DF'd people are much more of a liability to the religion then minor forms of punishment. They will be a lot more lenient with people going foreword. I say that because it makes business sense, and we all know, the business comes first, not theology or integrity to their interpretation of scripture.

  I also suspect automatic payments [monthly] to be an option on the website. This is the next logical step foreword for monetary contributions.
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  9

  what is truth - Pilate asked Jesus

  by Ruby456 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think pilate was being socratic when he asked jesus - what is truth?.

  my question is to do with whether or not jesus was also being socratic when he said he had come to bear witness to the truth.

  my idea is that both pilate and jesus were talking about a kind of ethics to live.

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  Saved_JW

  You are correct, Pilate was being Socratic in the way he responded to Jesus claim. His main concern was that Jesus was trying to start a rebellion by claiming to be the King of the Jews. Jesus response was a theological one, where he did claim to be king, just not of this world.

  This is why Pilate found no guilt [as to the accusations made by the Pharisees] for the claim of being King.

  Greek Philosophers have long struggled with the question of "the Logos" in other words, the one element that unites all things together. The Logos was another way of saying "the Truth" Jesus was essentially claiming to be that Truth that unites all things. Thus making him King or supreme over all things.