in the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
God would be a man?
In this example, yes. He has all the answers. Why would anyone specifically go against that man's advice? That's my point. When you postulate an entity of which can solve any problem, you by default call that entity the King and you part of his Kingdom. You accept dominion because it's for your own good. If YOU have all the answers then YOU are God and people ask YOU the questions.
-Sab
in the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
What do you mean by "God"?
The "man with all the answers."
-Sab
in the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
No, that's not what a slave is.
Assuming he exists, why would someone ever not take the advice of God? Since his way is always the most correct we are forced into "servitude." Righteousness is slavery.
Servitude: The state of being a slave or completely subject to someone more powerful.
-Sab
in the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
Why would God want slaves?
Band, anything that is lesser than God is a slave of God by default. If I was in a room with Richard Dawkins, I would not try to teach him about evolutionary biology. I would be forced into the role of "inquirer." I would be in a way a servant of HIM simply because he is a superior scientist. In the case with God he is superior to us across the board and in all respects. Therefore, to call ourselves anything but slaves of him would imply we know best when he doesn't (Isaiah 40:25) which can never logically be the case. It seems to me that you are allowing yourself to become emotionally invested in a word.
-Sab
i was doing some reading on jonestown recently, which led me to some reading on the branch davidians and the heaven's gate folks.. it seems to me (and this is the part i want to discuss) doomsday or apocolyptic cults all share some common characteristics:.
- secret knowledge of am impending disaster.
- their survival if they follow the messages from a higher source that their leader receives.
How do apocolytpic cults start?
A good example would be a person using pseudoscience to "prove" the existence of an impending extraterrestrial invasion. The goal is to get unyielding loyalty from others so that they can be used to do anything on command. First, they would need to convince suggestible people that an alien attack was imminent (Armageddon) and that only they hold the key to salvation from it. Then they would set a tangible date for when this doom would occur and then when it didn't come, they would have a premediated explanation for the failure of the event to transpire. When the failure occurs they will lose converts, but will also gain perfectly loyal drones. With the BS story they are essentially separating the wishful thinkers from the rational minds. The people who WANT what they say to be true will stay, and the one's who want the truth will leave. That's how cults start, from premeditated liars. Eventually the shysters die (ussually covered in money, sex and power) and what's left is an ideaology that was never meant to be true, but is passed on as if it was by loyal wishful thinkers. This starts a vicious cycle of people waking up to the lie and the wishful thinkers confirming their bias.
-Sab
i am a fader and through the years i've known and spoken to jw's who live their entire life around the religion.
they live as though they speak with jesus himself!
what really got to me was the other day me and my wife had to stop by some elder's house and it was a saturday night.
I'm curious as to what causes many people like this to be so devoted to it. What is the phsycology behind what makes them tick?
What you saw were addicts. You don't call alcoholics devoted, you call them addicts.
-Sab
in the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
Facinating posts, Shelby. I will do my best to respond. As I suspected our interpretations are compatible, yet different.
Unfortunately (or, as to the latter, fortunately), Babylon the Great is not as either you or the WTBTS intrepret her. She is not the "world empire of false religion" NOR "everything on earth... created by the "work of man's hands." She is the combined entities of Israel (including but not limited to Judaism) and "christianity" (the world of christendom)... including Judeo-Christianity... which is actually pretty easy to see when you look at her description: She is an adulteress.
I interpret the Harlot as the earth. A captain calls his ship "her" and a car enthusiast calls his vehicle a female. Earth is the "pride and joy" of God who created her. Creating humans in the image of Himself and allowing them to dwell on the planet was a risk he took (which was an act of love). The result was them corrupting "mother earth" into a state of harlotry. This was all allowed because of the gift of free will.
I cannot support an interpretation of the Harlot as JUST "Judaism and Christianity" because the harlotry goes much further than that. In the imagery in Revelation 13 we see that she is in union with the Scarlet Beast. This is a sexual relationship which makes it's bestiality. This connects to imagery in Genesis where you have a union between female and serpent which is also a sexual allusion. Eve was an adulteress with the serpent and therefore through time the "mother of all the living" becomes the "mother of abominations." Judaism and Christianity are not the only abominations that have existed on this planet. Every single religion and government that exists in antiquity are manned by children of the mother of abominations. Meaning that no matter how hard they try not to, they will always be an abomination and crumble because of it. The children of the Harlot include ALL organized religion and all government.
However according to Romans 13 we know that God establishes human authorities. The greek word used is tassó
tassó: to draw up in order, arrange
Original Word: τ?σσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: tassó
Phonetic Spelling: (tas'-so)
Short Definition: I assign, arrange
Definition: (a) I assign, arrange, (b) I determine; mid: I appoint.
So, God "draws up" government and then it's manned by the children of the mother of abominations. That's why governments have a measure of success in the beginning and eventually corrupt into oblivion or need to be destroyed. The same could be said about Judaism and Christianity. God "drew up" the OT and the NT and left the people to follow and maintain those laws, which of course they never do.
Babylon the Great, then, is the composite of those adulterous people who either once belonged to God and/or Christ... or claimed to... and yet, in committing fornication with human authorities... killed the prophets sent to her to warn her of her adultery.
Babylon the Great is called a "great city" in Revelation and this is because corrupt mother earth IS a composite city and it IS great. That city is controlled by the occult socities of the planet that have existed even before Jesus' day. People within that city have always had choice to worship IT or to worship God. That has always been the agenda of the occult societies: to get people to worship idols which means the worship is secretly being given to them and their master, who created the idols and know they are fake.
I am not aware that this is true, except as to the WTBTS’ knowledge that they are part of the “World Empire of False Religion.” My understanding is that this is NOT true, that Babylon the Great really believes she still sits a queen and so is blind to her own position and place. She does not consider HERSELF the adulteress, but hypocritically sits in judgment of others (by means of her “royal” status).
A "great city" is mentioned in Revelation 11 which is figuratively named "Sodom and Egypt." This is another reference to the occult societies that control the world. The reason the Mother of Abominations considers herself a queen is because of the comprehensive results from her systems of sexual deviance and mind control which are signified by the terms "Sodom" and "Egypt." The Watchtower doesn't identify with the Harlot, but the Beast out of the Earth because they practice false prophecy which is a system of MIND CONTROL. They are a room in the mansion so to speak, not the mansion itself.
However, your position as to occult societies, etc., is not known to me.
I would suggest doing more research on occult societies and you will see that they are spoken about in the Bible. The Watchtower is part of this web of socieities (they even call themselves "the society") and they understand that they all make up the collective "Babylon the Great" because they control all government and all religion behind the scenes. This is why they were part of the UN, because they are in bed with them.
This is TRUE; however, I think you are misguided in your understanding of WHAT doctrine and organizational structure, which I will discuss in a separate post (which I will make in a bit).
I meant doctrine and organizational structure in general as it pertains to religion and government. It's what they write down that is used to expose truth lovers with intent on killing them (ie Watchtower and Awake!). This happens when Watchtower adherents wake up from the cult. They actually want this to happen because it exposes them as WITHOUT the mark of the beast which is a death warrant while in the "great city." The whole judicial system is designed to kill the holy ones. The Watchtower has admitted that they would kill us while we sleep if they had the authority. But they do not so they have to settle with a destruction of character and family ties instead.
Shelby, your understanding of the wounded head of the Scarlet Beast is very new to me, but it makes a lot of sense. Israel was a "stone the builders rejected" which is why God gave them specifically the Law. They earned it because they did not worship the idols of the land which were birthed by the Mother of Abominations. The "builders" are a reference to the occult societies. In our day in age we have an underground organization called "The Masons" which uses stone building as it's organizational symbol. These "builders" continue to add to the "great city" and have no intention on letting up. They sit "a queen" and do not believe that any can challenge their might. However, like everyone before them, they will fall into oblvion as they are children of the Mother of Abominations. What man builds up, God tears down.
Matthew 24 - Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
I appreciate your time, Shelby. Your a great help to me and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I know I have not addressed all your concerns, but I do not have a whole lot of time at the moment. Just know that we are not in disagreement, I believe both our perspectives are needed. This seems to be by design.
-Sab
in the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
Thanks for responding, dear Sab (again, peace to you!). Would you be open to perhaps another explanation for the image? Please know you only need respond if you wish to have the discussion. If not, no worries. I don't want to give any appearance of the desire to contend or anything like that, but I thnk there are scriptures (OT and NT) that might help show an alternative explanation... if you're open to receiving that.
Thanks for being so polite. I have no problem discussing alternative explanations. However it should be noted that I left a lot open to interpretation for a purpose. This series is not meant to be a fine tooth comb, but serves to help people start to understand the nature of the Watchtower, where they come from and whom they serve.
Let me quickly define a few terms before this discussion. Babylon the Great is everything on earth that was created by the "work of man's hands" and connects with the Tower of Babel imagery. The Scarlet Beast are the kings of the earth who the Harlot birthed into the world and now is allied with. These kings are all human authorities except for God's personal Order of Melchizedek. Our world is controlled by occult societies who work behind the scenes to alter the course of history for their own means. Occult societies by design work in secret and therefore require a system of lies in order to maintain their status quo. This is why the Beast out of the Earth is required to discover the identities of the holy ones, which are traitors to the World of Lies. I do say that the Watchtower IS the Beast out of the Earth, but not the ONLY party involved.
A few years ago the Watchtower published a tract that told of the coming fall of "The World Empire of False Religion" whom they connect with the Harlot imagery in Revelation 13. This however is a purposeful misdirect as they are fully aware that they are PART of the "World Empire of False Prophets." To join an group of organized crime you have to go through a loyalty test. I suspect that the same goes for organized false prophecy. The Watchtower knows that the occult societies of the world are on a collision course with truth and therefore when their time comes they will immediately fall into oblivion. If the Watchtower can make a true prophecy (fall of false prophets) when they are exposed they believe they can slip into the realm of true prophecy instead of false. However, it doesn't matter if they suddenly start telling the truth because nothing will ever make up for the deception they have plagued the world with.
So, the Image of the Beast is just a tool of the false prophets. Before Christ's death graven images were used prominently. After his death they declined and eventually people stopped being fooled by graven images. This meant that the false prophets had to rethink a new strategy to get worship and that meant focusing on the occult societies which spans all the way to our day (Cabalistic). It's the occult societies that make up the collective "World Empire of False Religion" that the Watchtower is a part of. The "Image" that is erected by this beast is doctrine and organizational structure. No longer do prominent people bow down before graven images in the way that it used to occur. Now we have groups who assert, "God works through an organization" which makes up the collective "Image of the Beast" which is used to kill the holy ones by exposing their love for truth.
-Sab
in the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
Yes, I can see that (again, peace to you!), but I'm not sure everyone can and so I'm just wondering if you're going to identify that "idol" because that's what I thought your statement meant. Given that not worshipping this idol will result in some being killed... I thought it might be useful, perhaps even helpful, particularly, for those who need to to be able to identify it. No worries - I apologize if I misunderstood your theme.
The idol is the tool of the false prophet. In the case of the Watchtower, their image is their publications which includes their organizational structure, secret elders books etc. Without the idol there is nothing a false prophet can direct the worship to. If you convince someone to worship something you created you are essentially getting the worship yourself, unbeknownst to them. That's what I believe the name "Jehovah" was designed to accomplish. It's a deception of epic proportions.
-Sab
in the first post in this series i discussed the identity of the watchtower as per revelation 13. the second post dealt with the identity of the harlot and the scarlet beast.
this post will deal with the third element "the image of the beast", lets read revelation 13:15-17:.
the second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
But I can't see where the post did that. I can see where it began to deal with and even gave us a little "insight into the identity of the group of people who [the Image of the Beast] targets" but not that "Image."
The image is the Idol of the Dragon that is used to identity the holy ones by making them choose to worship an idol or die. What I am trying to get across with this series is that the Watchtower practices the tactic of purposeful lying (also known as false advertising) which connects them with the Beast out of the Earth. It only serves a sinister purpose to know that one will follow a rock you say is God. It's not a noble thing, it's a chaotic evil thing. The Watchtower logo itself would be a good literal example of the "Image of the Beast." They have the audacity to challenge the morality of the use of the cross and call it idol worship. Yet they litter the streets with the symbol of a watchtower.
-Sab
