Posts by Chaserious

16

Watchtower misleads the Florida Supreme Court

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

watchtower misrepresents santinelli on transfusion.

today i added a new article to my blog revealing a documented instance of watchtower lying to the supreme court of florida about a doctors view on blood transfusion.

for more than one reason this is a particularly bad instance of watchtower dishonesty at work.

Chaserious

Interesting. I read the relevant part of the amicus brief that you linked to. Personally, I don't think this was a breach of legal ethics or outside of the realm of reasonable zealous advocacy. Of course, it would change the equation to include more context to show that the reason, at least in part, that Santinelli opposed transfusion was because of the inhumane methods of collecting blood in those days. But they didn't misrepresent Santinelli's position nor did they omit a part of the actual quote itself so as to change the meaning. Additionally, this quote has nothing to do with their legal argument as it is under the heading that provides a history on the "Christian" reasoning for their belief. Whether there is a legitimate doctrinal justification for refusing blood is not relevant to the court. The WTS also didn't represent a party in this case, so while the same ethical duties apply, an amicus brief is not going to be scrutinized as carefully in most cases.

Edit to add: The brief is also very preachy and spends little time on the legal merits. My guess would be that this was a non-HQ witness attorney who jumped on this and counted about 100 hours of field service time over a few months working on the brief. They probably don't have the resources to put a Bethel lawyer on things where no WTS $$$ is at stake, especially 20 years ago. This of course, was about whether the witness who had a blood transfusion forced upon her would recover money from the hospital for the indignity of saving her life.

16

Watchtower misleads the Florida Supreme Court

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

watchtower misrepresents santinelli on transfusion.

today i added a new article to my blog revealing a documented instance of watchtower lying to the supreme court of florida about a doctors view on blood transfusion.

for more than one reason this is a particularly bad instance of watchtower dishonesty at work.

Chaserious

I don't see anything about Florida there... it's about misleading WT quotes.

Edit: nevermind, I see it in the footnote

20

Why don't JWs get classified as a Cult instead of a Religion under the Law?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i mean, can't any shmuck say they are a religion, then get all these tax breaks while at the same time tell people to murder, commit suicide, etc?.

Chaserious

why did government officials get involved in the Jones town tragedy and the Branch Davidians ?

Because the Branch Davidians broke all sorts of firearms and weapons laws and refused to comply with investigation. You can bet if they stockpiled a bunch of illegal weapons at Bethel they would storm the compound there too. Jonestown was outside of the U.S. and I don't believe they were the subject of a traditional law enforcement investigation. I think the CIA got involved. They were worried about conspiring with an enemy (USSR) and also they allegedly had killed members who tried to escape.

20

Why don't JWs get classified as a Cult instead of a Religion under the Law?

by cognac in

jw
friends

i mean, can't any shmuck say they are a religion, then get all these tax breaks while at the same time tell people to murder, commit suicide, etc?.

Chaserious

can't any shmuck say they are a religion

Yes, they can. Personally I would not be in favor of classifying groups as cults in the United States. I don't think it's the government's job to protect people from "dangerous" religious beliefs. If you break a generally applicable law, you should be prosecuted, whether for religious reasons or not. But I don't want the government tellng me what I can believe or that I can't associate with other people who believe what I believe. In my opinion, that would be going back to the red scare era where people were dragged into inquisitions and asked if they had even been a member of the communist party, because the government didn't agree with the thinking of that group.

I don't want my government deciding what religions or philosophies are "weird" or even "harmful" (as long as not breaking neutral laws) and persecuting those groups. This country was bascially started by people who were essentially classified as a "cult" in England before the term became popular, so in my opinion choosing unpopular religious groups and making them illegal would be regressing 400 years.

57

Anyone with Happy Memories from being a JW born in, please post here....

by SkyGreen in

first up, happy new year .

hi everyone, ok i guess this is controversial, but im doing it as therapy for me - so im not bitter about the way i was raised.

plus i want to see if i can be the op of an "epic thread"!!.

Chaserious

Hmm.. I liked some of the food they used to have at the assemblies and conventions. Half-frozen orange juice, danishes, and roast beef sandwiches, especially. My family was too poor to take expensive vacations, but a lot of years we went to a DC in various other cities (even though it was frowned upon - my mother didn't like the place we were assigned to), and made a weeklong trip out of it and saw some nearby sites, some of which were good times. It sucked being a kid at a convention where you didn't know anyone though.

My father was also a pretty good guy and tried to organize events that the local kids would enjoy. He also was sometimes reasonable about things, letting us kids do things that were discouraged by the WTS. For example, I was allowed to play on a sports team in high school, and we tried to be kind of quiet about it at the hall since no one else from my congregation went to my high school. In sort of a mixed blessing I had a little bit of success and was featured in some local newspaper articles, so people kind of knew about it. I had to quit for a while but then was able to rejoin. It was one of my favorite experiences of my entire childhood, so I'm glad my father didn't take a hard line on that and also I'm slightly glad for "headship"; if it were up to my Mom, I would have never been allowed to join.

15

The new FDS version 4.0. From the 3-1-22 Watchtower

by trujw in

ok guys i have cut and pasted from the march 3rd 1922 watchtower.

i think this is great and can be shown to any witness to have them sratching thier little heads.

one notice that they are still teaching christ's presence began in 1874 in 1922 and two this to me is a whopper.

Chaserious

Cool... one of many examples exposing revisionist history on their part. When I first saw your title, I thought you were going to predict what the 3/1/2022 WT said. Or maybe that they are releasing the mags that early now. =)

26

Is Watchtower $60 million away from liquidation?

by cedars in

jw
friends

watch this video, posted on jw.org.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jjvxobvi5a.

here is my article in response.... http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-watchtower-60-million-away-from-liquidation.

looking forward to hearing your thoughts!.

Chaserious

I wouldn't read that conclusion into this video. Exact quote: "It could have resulted in the liquidation of the Jehovah's Witnesses headquarters." The interviewer also used the word "headquarters" to describe the interviewee's position at the beginning of the video, saying that he was a member of the JW headquarters in France. (Also he used the qualifier "in France" in the same sentence as the liquidation quote). So to me, it seems that when they are using the word "headquarters" in this interview, they are talking about the French branch. Also, as least at the term "liquidation" is used in the U.S., it does not necessarily mean that a business is insolvent, or that external forces are forcing the liquidation. So even if the France branch would have liquidated had they not won the case, it does not automatically follow that even the France branch is $60 Million from being broke (if the term is being used in the same sense as it would in the U.S.)

By means of example, Widget Co, Inc. might be a U.S. business with a French subsidiary making widgets locally in France. If the parent doesn't think it's a good idea to run the subsidiary long-term, it can liquidate the business, even if not in danger of becoming insolvent. It would then sell all of the land, buildings and equipment owned by the subsidiary, and might even turn a large profit on the liquidation.

38

typical circuit assembly

by nowwhat? in

on the plus side there was good council about families and then there is that special feeling of the brotherhood you get.. on the negative side, the d.o.

gave the "ol talk about the "busier we are, it won't seem like the new world is taking so long" talk.

that's fine if you do'nt work for a living.

Chaserious

About 8 years ago, a Circuit Overseer who was a big hockey fan said in a car group in service that he liked to watch the Stanley Cup playoffs as much as he could every year because he thought it was only a matter of time before the society banned hockey.

25

AWAKE! misquote concerning Higher Education

by DATA-DOG in

check it out.

first, the article...... awake!

where can you get the best education?.

Chaserious

dishonesty in journalism

If they are journalists, I'm the King of Mars.

91

Any updates on the SPY network at the I.R.S., F.B.I., and other agencies for Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?

by Balaamsass in

curious, with almost 25,000 members here.

network of j.w.

does anyone have any up to date info on the status of the volunteer "spies"?.

Chaserious

Just a question on the original premise of this post, since it's my first time coming across it. Don't you think they would be wary of maintaining a large network of "contacts" for fear of it coming out, especially in light of increasingly strict privacy laws and high-tech employee monitoring policies? They are obviously aware of the number of people who leave or fade annually, as well of publishers who appear to be loyal yet post on "apostate" websites and all. All it would take is one disillusioned person to blow the whistle and you could potentially have multiple people at HQ charged with a criminal conspiracy to violate privacy laws. Especially if they were to reach out to "contacts"; meaning that they need someone for whatever reason inside a certain organization and were to somehow contact a witness working there and ask for information. That seems especially dangerous, as compared to getting unsolicited tips from someone who wanted to be loyal. Just curious what others think.