There are apologists who sincerely (I think) try to refute everything, from the UN issue to the false prophesies to the misquotes to the pseudo-science, to the child abuse policies and everything else. I don't doubt that some at Bethel could read everything here and still think they're right. I'm sure if they do assign anyone to the task, they choose them very carefully. Probably not only the most highly indocrinated, but those who would have the most to lose by leaving.
Chaserious
JoinedPosts by Chaserious
-
69
Why has the WT not tried to shut down this board?
by hamsterbait inwe all know that beth hell monitors this site.. they have repeatedly had sites shut down for quoting large portions of their litterature.
not this one.. do you think this board enables them to keep a finger on the pulse of what is going on in ex and aposto land?
hb.
-
-
-
19
In all US states, the Courts do NOT require two witnesses or even corroborating evidence in child sex abuse cases
by yadda yadda 2 inpages 433-437 inter alia, of the book "myers on evidence in child, domestic or elder abuse cases" fourth edition refers.. you can view this very informative material at google books.
this shows how the watchtower's strict interpretation of the biblical two-witness rule is very much out of harmony with the modern legal system in matters of child sex abuse.
j.r. brown, watchtower spokesman, is reported by the associated press on february 11, 2001 to have said:"...corroborating evidence can be used instead of a second witness to prove wrongdoing.
-
-
Chaserious
Courts don't require two witnesses, but you are more likely to get a conviction with multiple witnesses, or one witness and some physical evidence. Studies have shown that false accusations of child molestation represent about 10% of all accusations. So I would rather require more evidence than just the accuser's word than take a 10% chance that an innocent person's life is being destroyed. There have been a number of cases where the parent is paranoid that their child has been abused and they basically coach the child as to what to say, believing they are doing the right thing. With that said, requiring that the extra evidence be two witnesses is plain stupid.
-
51
JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?!
by ekruks inlike many on here, as a jw trying hard to follow the direction of the gb, i listened to the advice to pioneer and trust in jehovah to provide (mat6.33) instead of going to university.
after struggling for ages in low-paid physically-demanding jobs, i decided to become a student (thanks for the encouragement on here guys!).
i tell a jw i wish i had been to university when i was a teenager, and put all that pioneer time into studying hard for a good grade, get a good job, and if i had wound up tired as i am now, at least i would have been paying into a mortgage on a home and pension.
-
-
Chaserious
Yes, Losch said there was a young man who had OCD and was so disturbed by it that he put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. However, not only did he live, but the bullet changed the part of his brain that controlled the OCD, so that he no longer had it. The point is that because he survived it and was normal, would we recommend that treatment to other people with OCD? Similarly, just because some witnesses have gone to college and remained "in the truth" doesn't mean we should recommend it.
AM3 also gave a talk saying we are pro-education - we are just selective about who does the educating. lol... He also warned that no matter what you major in they force you to take "Philosophy 1 and Philosophy 2" and "then all of a sudden it gets in there and the intellectual gripping of the mind, very hard to recover from," and that he could tell you all kinds of "horror stories" about this kind of thing. After all, only the GB should teach you how to think, not your philosophy class. If anyone is going to be doing "gripping of the mind", it's got to be the GB!
Edit: I see you added the Losch video, excuse my summary. Here is the link to the AM3 video:
-
51
JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?!
by ekruks inlike many on here, as a jw trying hard to follow the direction of the gb, i listened to the advice to pioneer and trust in jehovah to provide (mat6.33) instead of going to university.
after struggling for ages in low-paid physically-demanding jobs, i decided to become a student (thanks for the encouragement on here guys!).
i tell a jw i wish i had been to university when i was a teenager, and put all that pioneer time into studying hard for a good grade, get a good job, and if i had wound up tired as i am now, at least i would have been paying into a mortgage on a home and pension.
-
-
Chaserious
I mean you did chose not to go to college. Their influence cannot be denied, but YOU made the choice not to go.
I tend to take this view of things in my own case as well. I think it's a shame that they hound people decade after decade about not trying to advance in this "dying system," but we all make our choices. I began pioneering when I was 19. I was a mentally competent adult, able to make my own choices in life. Although there is a lot of indoctrination, it was my choice. Sure, it was a waste of thousands of hours of my life that I'd love to have back, but I don't feel that the WTS owes me for my hours or anything like that.
There were a number of others kids in my area who started disappearing from the KH around the time they were 18. Some went to college, some did other things, and I regret not leaving at that age, but ultimately it was my choice, even if a poor one, and even if I was trying to please my parents and other people. I feel like in many cases, the parents are to blame as much as the WTS... maybe not on an issue like blood that is a DF offense, but on issues like education the parent has to have a role in motivating good career choices, since many teenagers aren't inclined to do it themselves. I knew other non-JW kids from my neighborhood who didn't pursue a worthwhile career, not because of being in a cult but because the parents just didn't do their job in encouraging it.
-
78
Publishers Need A Background Check Before Moving To My Kingdom Hall.
by AuntConnie in.
.
background check first.. .
-
-
Chaserious
This person probably needs an extended period of intense therapy. Even if s/he is here to incite a reaction (which I doubt because if so why would she ninja-edit the list away before more people could read it), the level of nuance needed to create a character of this nature indicates to me that someone who would devote that much effort to it has some unresovled issues.
-
19
"We have truly seen Jehovah's hand" - the shocking side of Watchtower propaganda
by cedars inas a special "thank you" gift to the watch tower society's team of lawyers for getting jwsurvey shut down yesterday, i have written a new article focussing on the experience of the nigeria plane crash from pages 29 and 30 of the 2013 yearbook.
the experience purports to be about the relief committee set up to assist a witness family whose home was destroyed by a deadly plane crash that claimed over 150 lives rather than the freak survival of the family because they obediently attended their meeting.. still, the reaction of witnesses on facebook unmistakably demonstrates that the real aim of the watchtower propaganda machine was mostly achieved in this article.
despite the fact that two witnesses were recently killed in a bus crash on their way to an assembly, apparently those who obey the bible's command to not forsake gathering together will experience "jehovah's hand" of protection.. here is the link.... http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/we-have-truly-seen-jehovahs-hand-the-shocking-side-of-watchtower-propaganda.
-
-
Chaserious
Interesting read, as usual. How did they get your site shut down?
-
78
Publishers Need A Background Check Before Moving To My Kingdom Hall.
by AuntConnie in.
.
background check first.. .
-
-
Chaserious
surrender your life to christ
lol, yes that will solve everything. I knew you could pray the gay away... can you pray the crazy away too?
-
9
Candace Conti: WTS Appeal Info.
by DNCall in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:documentproperties> <o:template>normal.dotm</o:template> <o:revision>0</o:revision> <o:totaltime>0</o:totaltime> <o:pages>1</o:pages> <o:words>19</o:words> <o:characters>110</o:characters> <o:company>bryan cave llp</o:company> <o:lines>1</o:lines> <o:paragraphs>1</o:paragraphs> <o:characterswithspaces>135</o:characterswithspaces> <o:version>12.0</o:version> </o:documentproperties> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves>false</w:trackmoves> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:drawinggridhorizontalspacing>18 pt</w:drawinggridhorizontalspacing> <w:drawinggridverticalspacing>18 pt</w:drawinggridverticalspacing> <w:displayhorizontaldrawinggridevery>0</w:displayhorizontaldrawinggridevery> <w:displayverticaldrawinggridevery>0</w:displayverticaldrawinggridevery> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:dontautofitconstrainedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> </w:compatibility> </w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:latentstyles deflockedstate="false" latentstylecount="276"> </w:latentstyles> </xml><!
-
-
Chaserious
It's fairly common to get an extension on the initial deadline. Although I was hoping to see the paperwork on Monday.
To answer the earlier question, I don't think that the WTS appellate lawyers are JWs. Looking at the website bios of the two attorneys at the firm:
Boudreau "e njoys public service through volunteer assignments on the Board of Directors for Father Joe's Villages and Mater Dei Catholic High School."
So he's obviously not a witness
Nothing quite as obvious on Williams' profile. However it does say that he " enjoys spending time with his wife and two young sons, cycling, and surfing. He has also trained for and completed fifteen triathlons in the last six years." Somehow I doubt that someone would have time to be a JW, practice law, cycle, surf, and do 15 triathlons. After all, bodily training is only beneficial for a little... lol.
-
48
Bethel perfection bubble burst
by redvip2000 injust got back from florida where i spent the holidays with family.
about half are jdubs.. this year the prevalent atmosphere of superiority from the jw side of the family was totally toned down.
one of my cousins, a bethelite in upstate ny bethel along with his wife, found out that the wife was having an affair with a young bethelite "brother".
-
-
Chaserious
Anyone who could refer to a young person commiting suicide as a "cleaning" is... to borrow a phrase... mentally diseased.
Of course sleeping with someone else's spouse is a problem regardless of religion, but the sick thing is they probably rationalize the suicide by saying "Well, if we were in ancient Israel, they would have just taken him outside of the village and stoned him." I know of some particularly pompous elders who used to say things like that... disgusting.
-
92
Your earliest doubt?
by Apognophos inthis might be an unfair question for those who have been out of the organization for decades, but i'm wondering if any of you remember your earliest doubt -- maybe something odd that occurred to you as a kid (if you were a jw then).
please try to limit to two doubts at the most :-).
i think my first "doubt" was simply realizing that at the time of the flood, every animal that wasn't in the ark died (well, besides the fish, supposedly).
-
-
Chaserious
The first time I can recall thinking independently was when I was about 10 or 11 years old and I was hanging out in the coat room with some other kids after one of the meetings. This other boy, who was the same age as me said to the rest of us "What would you do if one meeting the Elders all got up on the stage and said 'Ha ha, it was all a joke! Everything we've been telling you all these years was a big joke.'" I think the kid meant it as a joke himself, but I remember thinking to myself that really there is no way to know if everything the elders taught us is true or not except that they say so and my parents and the literature say so.
I wouldn't say that was a real doubt, but I have always recalled it vividly since it made me think. My first solid doubts were when I was in high school and I learned hard science and I could see the proof myself that the human race was not 6,000 years old and there was not a worldwide flood 4,000 years ago that killed everyone except for 8 people and all of the animals in their floating box. I did extra research on my own outside of the school textbooks and read the Creation book and other literature on the subject and I was fairly sure at that point that a hoax had been somehow perpetrated on me, at least with respect to the WTS inventing its own "science". Unfortunately it took me until my mid 20's to realize the full scope of what was going on, but I definitely never argued the literal Genesis account or the flood with anyone out in service.