Chaserious

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Posts by Chaserious

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  57

  Watchtower softens position on Jehovah' Witnesses and blood transfusions? Canadian National Post Story.

  by Balaamsass in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  without fanfare, jehovahs witnesses quietly soften position on blood transfusionstom blackwell, national post staff | dec 20, 2012 9:59 pm et.

  more from national post staff.

  calgary herald/fileslawrence hughes broke with the witnesses, and the rest of his own family, when it tried to prevent his teenage daughter, bethany, who died in 2002, from receiving a blood transfusion while being treated for cancer.twittergoogle+linkedinemailcommentsmoretumblrpinterestredditdiggfarkitstumbleuponfor years, the jehovahs witnesses fiercely held belief that blood transfusions are contrary to gods will led to emotional and very public disputes, hospitals clashing with parents over whether to infuse sick children.. that long history of messy legal confrontations appears to be vanishing, however, amid changing approaches to the issue on both sides, health-care officials say.. the churchs ban on accepting blood still stands, but some major pediatric hospitals have begun officially acknowledging the parents unorthodox beliefs, while many jehovahs witnesses are signing letters recognizing that doctors may sometimes feel obliged to transfuse, they say.. as institutions show more respect toward parents faith and try harder not to use blood, witnesses often seem eager to avoid involving child-welfare authorities to facilitate transfusions, and more accepting that canadian case law is firmly on the doctors side, some hospital officials say.. they get it that were going to transfuse where its medically necessary.

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  Chaserious

  I am also not so convinced that these are "legally useless documents." In my opinion, one should always assume that documents drafted in legal terms have some import. I know nothing about Canadian tort law, but I think that in the United States, were a similar document used, while it would indeed be useless to show consent, it could be proof of notice.

  I think that if the JW parent decided to bring a civil suit later for wrongfully transfusing the child, this document would be admissible in that matter to show that the parent was on notice that a transfusion could be given, and potentially used to argue that a burden shifting had taken place. In other words, since the parent knew (was on notice) that the hospital would transfuse if it thought the procedure was legally justified, the burden would then be on the parent after receiving such notice to run to court and get her own court order if the parent thought it was not legally justified. I would suspect that having such proof of notice would make the hospital's legal team more comfortable with giving an unconsented transfusion.
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  4

  Letter of Understanding - LOU

  by dreamgolfer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  dear friends,.

  after reading the wonderful article and comments on the lou with regards to blood for minor children.. it made me think that such a document and it's principle of writing would also have merit and be valid for use of and not limited to allowing - military service, acceptances of oaths and allegiance and other legal situations that have cost many previous jw's their lives.. i throw this out to all in terms of a discussion - what do you think?.

  thanks and happy new year!

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  Chaserious

  I am guessing the WTS would not be satisfied by such a document in other contexts. After all, it is only used with minors who can be forced by the state to get a transfusion in any event. Adult JWs as I understand it are still expected to die rather than accept prohibited blood procedures. So I would imagine that adult JWs would still be expected to take the consequences for refusing miltary service, oaths, etc.
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  57

  Watchtower softens position on Jehovah' Witnesses and blood transfusions? Canadian National Post Story.

  by Balaamsass in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  without fanfare, jehovahs witnesses quietly soften position on blood transfusionstom blackwell, national post staff | dec 20, 2012 9:59 pm et.

  more from national post staff.

  calgary herald/fileslawrence hughes broke with the witnesses, and the rest of his own family, when it tried to prevent his teenage daughter, bethany, who died in 2002, from receiving a blood transfusion while being treated for cancer.twittergoogle+linkedinemailcommentsmoretumblrpinterestredditdiggfarkitstumbleuponfor years, the jehovahs witnesses fiercely held belief that blood transfusions are contrary to gods will led to emotional and very public disputes, hospitals clashing with parents over whether to infuse sick children.. that long history of messy legal confrontations appears to be vanishing, however, amid changing approaches to the issue on both sides, health-care officials say.. the churchs ban on accepting blood still stands, but some major pediatric hospitals have begun officially acknowledging the parents unorthodox beliefs, while many jehovahs witnesses are signing letters recognizing that doctors may sometimes feel obliged to transfuse, they say.. as institutions show more respect toward parents faith and try harder not to use blood, witnesses often seem eager to avoid involving child-welfare authorities to facilitate transfusions, and more accepting that canadian case law is firmly on the doctors side, some hospital officials say.. they get it that were going to transfuse where its medically necessary.

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  Chaserious

  Parents don't "force" court orders; hospitals seek court orders.

  Of course parents force court orders; they force the hospital to seek them. The hospital does not need a court order for the 99.5% of children whose parents consent to lifesaving treatment by signing an authorization form. For the 0.5% or whatever small minority of parents will not consent, the hospital is "forced" to obtain a court order to provide the treatment. One cannot approach this pedantically, looking only through the narrow lens of sheer legal force. The world does not go around because everyone needs a court order to tell them what to do. Most of the time people acquiesce when they know they have no legal ground on which to stand on without "forcing" someone to run to the court to get an injunction or restraining order. If you owned a house and rented it out, and the tenant refused to move out when his lease was over, wouldn't it be fair to say that he "forced you" to get a court order to evict him?

  The LoU/Acknowledgement Statements are legally useless documents; therefore, there is no harm to the WTBTS if JWs sign these.

  Respectfully, I do not think this is the issue. The WTBTS cannot be legally "harmed" no matter the outcome. A corporation is not the one being transfused. This is a matter between the patient, the parents and the hospital. It has nothing to do with WTBTS legal rights, since they have none in these cases anyone. Watchtower doctrine has often been a matter of symbolism, and not legalism. They caused publishers in Malawi to die because of not carrying a political party card. This was a symbolic issue. I would be quite certain that in the 1980's, the HLC would have told publishers not to sign anything acknowledging blood might be given. It contains symbolism that could be equated with agreement, even if not legal consent. Just as the Malawi cards meant almost nothing practically (it was a one-party country) but might "give the idea that we compromise Christian principles", the LOU would have been viewed the same saw by a hard-line WTS regime.
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  74

  New video: Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower's secret child abuse letter

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  we have decided to let the world know what happened when our websites were shut down earlier this month by means of this new video..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_9efi84qnc.

  huge thanks to nugget for lending us her gorgeous voice, and also to cantleave for his cameo role as the voice of the big bad watchtower!

  cedars.

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  Chaserious

  In the large picture I am a big fan of jwsurvey, but I think this video, while well-produced, overdramatizes the "WTS is going to all-out war against us" angle. I really doubt that the WTS actually viewed this as a "great victory." No offense, but I suspect that the entire WTS did not mobilize into action to orchestrate the removal of this one letter, as the video somewhat suggests. I imagine in actuality this kind of thing is rather routine, and does not require authorization from the top. They probably send out loads of takedown notices every week. This one just happened to result in web sites being shut down by somewhat random chance because the notice went into a spam folder.
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  74

  New video: Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower's secret child abuse letter

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  we have decided to let the world know what happened when our websites were shut down earlier this month by means of this new video..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_9efi84qnc.

  huge thanks to nugget for lending us her gorgeous voice, and also to cantleave for his cameo role as the voice of the big bad watchtower!

  cedars.

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  Chaserious

  I read the letter and I see no notice of it being under copyright protection.

  You don't need to have a copyright symbol to have copyright protection. It was discussed in more detail in this thread:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/244342/4/Several-Sites-Are-Down
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  57

  Watchtower softens position on Jehovah' Witnesses and blood transfusions? Canadian National Post Story.

  by Balaamsass in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  without fanfare, jehovahs witnesses quietly soften position on blood transfusionstom blackwell, national post staff | dec 20, 2012 9:59 pm et.

  more from national post staff.

  calgary herald/fileslawrence hughes broke with the witnesses, and the rest of his own family, when it tried to prevent his teenage daughter, bethany, who died in 2002, from receiving a blood transfusion while being treated for cancer.twittergoogle+linkedinemailcommentsmoretumblrpinterestredditdiggfarkitstumbleuponfor years, the jehovahs witnesses fiercely held belief that blood transfusions are contrary to gods will led to emotional and very public disputes, hospitals clashing with parents over whether to infuse sick children.. that long history of messy legal confrontations appears to be vanishing, however, amid changing approaches to the issue on both sides, health-care officials say.. the churchs ban on accepting blood still stands, but some major pediatric hospitals have begun officially acknowledging the parents unorthodox beliefs, while many jehovahs witnesses are signing letters recognizing that doctors may sometimes feel obliged to transfuse, they say.. as institutions show more respect toward parents faith and try harder not to use blood, witnesses often seem eager to avoid involving child-welfare authorities to facilitate transfusions, and more accepting that canadian case law is firmly on the doctors side, some hospital officials say.. they get it that were going to transfuse where its medically necessary.

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  Chaserious

  A JW could sign a LoU and subsequently still fight a blood transfusion claiming it against his or her religious mores and akin to rape because LoUs do not affect the legal rights of either the JW or the hospital.

  I still disagree with the claim that no change took place, even if it was not a recent change. It's not just about whether legal rights have been disclaimed or not. It's about what the HLCs are telling parents in conjunction with these forms. Everyone knows that the majority of parents will do what the HLC tells them, so that's a more important barometer of their official policy than whether legal rights are surrendered. The fact is that a couple of decades ago, it was commonplace for parents to force a court order, whereas now they will sign this letter and not pursue their legal rights, whether they formally waive them or not.
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  60

  My husband deleted me as a friend on FaceBook

  by cognac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after this whole thing with him talking to this other girl on fb, now he deleted me as a friend.

  i have his username and password.

  it's like, he doesn't want this marriage to work at all.. i don't even have it in me to argue with him.

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  Chaserious

  Sorry to hear about this. He probably deleted you so he can communicate with the girl. Be careful about logging into his account though. In some states that is illegal even if it's your spouse and even if you have his password. Would hate for it to be used against you later.
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  5

  Angela Trimbur. Homeschooled Jehovah's Witness

  by I quit! in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i came across this video featured on yahoo of a girl dancing at lax over the holidays.

  i looked her up and found out that she is a former jw and even did some sort of play about it.

  i was wondering if anyone else has heard of her.

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  Chaserious

  Never heard of her, but it looks like she's done pretty well for herself. She has a pretty long imdb page.

  " Sometimes the pathway to freedom can be found when you give a BJ to a JW." lol

  http://www.laweekly.com/2010-07-22/calendar/can-i-get-a-witness/
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  92

  Compiling List-Trivial Items People Are Counseled Against

  by love2Bworldly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hope this is not a repeat of past threads and i hope to get a lot of response.

  i am compiling info of how people are treated within the wts.

  i just read the post about a person being counseled for having baby shower games.

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  Chaserious

  My wife used to get home from work on our midweek meeting night at about 6:30, or sometimes 6:45. TMS meeting time was 7:30. I was responsible for the literature counter at the time, which was supposed to open 20 minutes early. We rarely made it by 7:10 and I was asked by an elder to make it to the hall by 7:10 in the future. So my wife and I started driving separate cars to the KH since she couldn't get ready in time to make it by 7:10. Wasn't a big deal since we only lived 5 minutes from the hall. Then this other elder counsels me that we can't drive to the meeting in separate cars. I told him the reason we were taking two cars and tactfully asked him what the basis is for not being allowed to drive separately. He said that people could think that we have marital problems and be stumbled. The a$$h@le said that my wife should change her work schedule or maybe wait to eat dinner until after the meeting.
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  100

  Stop Putting Apostate Stickers On My Literature! They "Cost Lots of Money!"

  by AuntConnie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "true story" the circuit overseer came to our kingdom hall and read us the riot act (local needs style) "magazines of this quality are not free, they cost money and we are not generating enough donations to defray the cost of the magazines(or running the top of the line printing presses) i get my ass out of bed to place literature in the laundray cleaning, coin opperated shops and some asshole puts his apostate stickers on our magazines.

  do you know how hard it is to get up at 6:00 am and how expensive those magazines are costing the organization to print?

  please stop defiling our literature, i dont post hateful stickers on your website so please leave my magazines alone.

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  Chaserious

  What is this I don't even