Posts by jordan12

i'm not trying to sling mud at anyone, but, while i am aware that pedophiles are to be found in all walks of society, why would it be that they seem to be so many among the religious?

as a former catholic, i often heard people say that priests would abuse children because a) they couldn't have a woman themselves (an outright lie) or b) because the catholic church gave them an "honorable" way to stay single and be in the company of many men and children.

but then the jw's don't have such restrictions, and abuse still happens.

jordan12

Someone asked why the JW paedophile scandals have not generated as much publicity.

I think mainly because the Watchtower organisation compared to the Catholic Church are nobodies. There is no publicity value in a JW brother,who is some janitor or window cleaner, being exposed as a child molester.
Compared to a Priest in a high profile church.
Where you can drag in Bishops, Cardinals and a Pope.

I disagree. Of course there is publicity value in a Witness committing a crime. Newspapers routinely mention that a criminal was a Witness, even if it was just a 'rank and file' member rather than an elder.

In fact, they frequently say that the person was a Witness when they were only studying or had been inactive for years, or were ex-Witnesses.

We all know very well that there are opposers who would give their right arm to make sure any wrongdoing committed by Witnesses is publicized to the maximum extent possible.

When a JW is caught he is dropped like a hot potato by the WT organisation.
Who will deny having anything to do with him.

The Watchtower can't do anything right, can it? If they disfellowship a wrongdoer, that's wrong, because they're "dropping the person like a hot potato" to avoid negative publicity. If they don't disfellowship the wrongdoer, well, that's wrong as well because 'the elders just stood by and did nothing and the person is still a Witness in good standing"

The truth of the matter is that some wrongdoers have been disfellowshipped even when there was no publicity, and that some have not been disfellowshipped even when there was. The determining factor isn't how widely the offence is known, but whether the person is deemed repentant.

I've never heard the organization comment on any criminal case.

Disfellowship him so they can say he is not a JW.

No, disfellowship him because that is what the Bible says they should do. A policy that virtually no other religious organization has had the courage to implement.

Unless you get some persistent journalist who will dig into the WT.
Writes a damning article or book, then the WT will carry on as usual.

I don't like conspiracy theories. I have a simpler, if less exciting, explanation.

Could it be that reports of crimes committed by Jehovah's Witnesses are relatively rare because Jehovah's Witnesses as a group really are more law-abiding? I know that's heresy to most Watchtower-haters, but that is definitely the conclusion that objective observers come to.

27

Does the new Catholic scandal help or hurt in exposing the WT abuse scandals?

by undercover in

with all the attention being paid to new allegations of abuse cover-up in the catholic church i wonder:.

1. does this take the heat off the wts and are they hoping to slide through less scrutinized while the pope gets skewered by the media?

will the wts be stupid enough to try to capitalize on the catholics problems by printing articles critical of them?.

jordan12

So in this latest scandal my bet would be that Witnesses who are NOT aware of similar issues within the Society would say something along the lines of "it just proves that Catholics are a false religion" (ie #1), and Witnesses who ARE aware of similar issues within the Society would say something along the lines of "oh, all religions are made up of imperfect humans" (ie #2).

I don't think that's reasonable or fair at all. The point is not whether pedophilia takes place in a church, it's what the church does about it.

Of course pedophilia can happen in any religion. But Catholic priests were simply transferred to other dioceses, whereas every Witness in a position of responsibility proved to be doing anything immoral with children has lost his privileges, if he was not disfellowshipped.

By the way it handles child-abuse cases, the Catholic church has proved to be morally bankrupt. Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand, have the strictest child protection policies of any religious organization and probably much lower rates of child abuse too.

31

One year in jail for JW man who circumcised son at home

by behemot in

jw
friends

one year in jail for metro vancouver man who circumcised son at homeby andrea woo, vancouver sunmarch 25, 2010comments (46)metro vancouver -- a metro vancouver man who circumcised his four-year-old son at home with a razor blade and blood coagulant meant for horses has been sentenced to one year in jail followed by two years probation.

in april 2007, the man, identified only as djw due to a publication ban, gave his son, dj, honey wine before placing him on garbage bags on the kitchen floor.

djw then cut away the boy's foreskin with a razor blade.. .

jordan12

First of all, he wasn't even a Jehovah's Witness.

"Court has heard that D.J.W.'s mother raised him as a Jehovah's Witness, but he left the church. Court has heard he believes circumcisions are required for religious reasons." (http://www.theprovince.com/health/bungled+circumcision+should+jailed+Crown/2722398/story.html)

Secondly, even if he was, so what? It's blatantly obvious that Jehovah's Witnesses don't require circumcision, (especially not do-it-yourself circumcision at home) and therefore this man's actions contradict Jehovah's Witnesses teachings.

Posting something like this just reveals how bigoted some people are. Some are so like their own distorted caricatures of Jehovah's Witnesses that it's almost spooky.

And then to comment that it was the congregation's responsibility because "there must have been some kind of warning signs that the dad wasn't the full picnic". What were they supposed to do? Take the kid away from the father?

Like many who post here, this guy was an ex-Witness. Should I tout it as proof of what weirdos ex-Witnesses are? Would that be reasonable?

12

Why is it that abuse is so prevalent among the religious?

by dgp in

i'm not trying to sling mud at anyone, but, while i am aware that pedophiles are to be found in all walks of society, why would it be that they seem to be so many among the religious?

as a former catholic, i often heard people say that priests would abuse children because a) they couldn't have a woman themselves (an outright lie) or b) because the catholic church gave them an "honorable" way to stay single and be in the company of many men and children.

but then the jw's don't have such restrictions, and abuse still happens.

jordan12

What makes you think that abuse is more prevalent among the religions than anywhere else?

42

Turning in time?

by crazy2try in

jw
friends

i have a problem.

my hubby and i are tying to fade out completely, but we ran into a snag.

my in-laws showed up with a stack of time slips and said that they will turn them in for us if we fill them out.

jordan12

Ad hominem isn't necessary in order to make a point. I know it is the Watchtower way but get over that please if you want to have productive conversations here.

You don't know what an ad hominem is. Ad hominem means saying that an argument is invalid because of who makes it. As for productive conversations here, I've already seen what sort of a place this is. I'm not stupid.

As for the implication that fading is dishonest, Theocratic Warfare Strategy teaches us that some people do not deserve the truth and that it is perfectly ok to lie to them to protect the spirituality of ourselves and others.

So it's OK to do it because you thing the Watch Tower does it? That's a bizarre and contradictory argument from someone who rejects Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings as a moral authority.

You are also misrepresenting what The Watchtower has said about Theocratic War strategy.

Fading does that.

Fading is for people who don't have the courage of their own convictions. Jehovah's Witnesses have endured all sorts of persecution rather than deny who they are and what they believe in. That's real courage and real honesty I would say.

Many stay in the borg because of the threat of shunning by family and friends and with the hope of enlightening others to the truth.

I'm sorry but I don't know what the "borg" is. You are so brainwashed by boards like this that you can't even use proper terminology. As for "enlightening others to the truth", well I've never seen so many lies in one place as I have on this board.

The victims of the cult have been lied to for almost a century and a half and indoctrinated to avoid and shun the blunt honesty your post would seem

to recommend. Fudging a time sheet (which rank and file Dubs already do all the time) isn't an unforgivable sin when the intention is fading and

helping others escape the borg.

First of all, what's with the "dubs" thing? Can't you use a respectful term? You would complain enough if Witnesses used a disrespectful term to refer to you. Two sets of weights?

Secondly, how exactly do you know that rank and file Witnesses "fudge" their reports?

Hey 5th generation, what sort of problems happened by continuing to report the family study? I'm at this point, too, and would like to know what to expect. Thanks.

Quit the lies and the double life and tell the congregation the truth. Go on, be a man!

42

Turning in time?

by crazy2try in

jw
friends

i have a problem.

my hubby and i are tying to fade out completely, but we ran into a snag.

my in-laws showed up with a stack of time slips and said that they will turn them in for us if we fill them out.

jordan12

Fill out fake time slips--this is yet another reason why I don't believe they actually have more than 7 million witlesses. You are going to have to fill out the slips. Report a moderate amount of time--too much, and you will be hounded for "privileges". Too little, you will be hounded to put in more field circus. Then, find some site to report the number of fake time slips you had to turn in so the actual number they publish can have them deducted from the accurate totals.

This comment is paradoxically a very honest admission of the commenter's untruthfulness and dishonesty and would be useful to bear in mind when evaluating how trustworthy his other posts are.

I say if you don't want to be a Witness you should do the honorable thing and tell the truth about it instead of remaining in the congregation as imposters on false pretenses.

3

Ministering Migrants

by Lekore in

i was just casting my mind back to when i would accompany my parents on the door-to-door work and remember that a considerable amount of return visits/calls were recent immigrants to the country who spoke little english.

once they found the country of origin they would immediately order literature in that language, despite that sometimes these people were just happy to read anything since they spoke little english.. it just reinforces my beliefs that they really prey on the most vulnerable members in society, maybe we should pamplet immigrants at airports to protect them from these people!.

anyone have similar experiences?.

jordan12

maybe we should pamplet immigrants at airports to protect them from these people!

Maybe you should get a life.

3

Please Comment on My Com to My JW Friend

by maputo95 in

please comment on my latest com with my jw friend who thinks every apostate left because they were doing wrong things themselves:it seems that every time we have a theological discussion or i comment on books written by ex-jws, you resort to extreme finger-pointing and judgmentalism against any church or organization that is not part of the watchtower movement.

i can understand why after a childhood of being informed by the wt you should do this.

firstly, the jw line is every 'apostate' is evil and has left the wt because he was sinning and couldn't live up to the 'high standards' of 'god's organisation on earth'.

jordan12

they often refuse to admit that proportionally, child abuse in Kingdom Halls matches or exceeds that found in the much larger Catholic Church.

It isn't true. That's quite a good reason to refuse to admit it.

If you have any solid proof at all, I want to see it.