Posts by megaboy

5

Whats going on with the 144000 thing? Spiritual people in the org...

by megaboy in

kind of a two fold question, use to have discussions with witnesses about the 144000 and how i didnt agree with it being spiritual because tribes are defined, also mentioned that early on in revelations that a measurement was given for gentiles and i explained that i belived that that was basically foundating that the prophecies proceeding would have nothing to do with gentiles as in they are not measured in these concerns.

never did get any decent reasoning from them on that.. but i haven't heard about that doctrine in a while or online.

granted there are a lot more messed up stuff they teach but these things gave me the impression that it would effect the org if anyone could claim to be of the 144000. are these people suppose to be spiritual?

megaboy

Kind of a two fold question, use to have discussions with witnesses about the 144000 and how I didnt agree with it being spiritual because tribes are defined, also mentioned that early on in revelations that a measurement was given for gentiles and I explained that I belived that that was basically foundating that the prophecies proceeding would have nothing to do with gentiles as in they are not measured in these concerns. Never did get any decent reasoning from them on that.

But I haven't heard about that doctrine in a while or online. Granted there are a lot more messed up stuff they teach but these things gave me the impression that it would effect the org if anyone could claim to be of the 144000. Are these people suppose to be spiritual? How are things fairing with that doctrine?

In this case I ask because I just recently saw a video of the organizations leaders dishing out their dogma and nothing about it implied that the men were spiritual. And I feel a highly spiritual person would pick up on it, even normal rational thinking people. But since being spiritual and rational dont always go hand and hand thats two opportunities to notice something is wrong. Rational people are probably long gone, but what about spiritual people? Are the videos ringing any alarm bells?

The broadcasts are stale, not full of heart at all. EVERY word is obviously carefully thought out and calculated, performances being done the same way. Its clear that every message has a distinct goal in molding the mind and is not based on encouragement or reasoning through naturalness. I'm very surprised that its not setting off major alarms significantly. These guys are obviously not spiritual.

35

The Governing Body are doubling down on dogma!

by DATA-DOG in

in case you were wondering if the governing body we're going to become kinder and gentler, the answer is a big "no!!!

in the current study edition of the wt magazine, the sheeple are reminded of some very important key points.

1) god has an organization ( corporation ) that you must respect.. 2) only the gb/faithful slave can dispense spiritual food and only the gb/faithful slave can interpret the bible.. 3) individual dubs absolutely cannot learn "truth" on their own.. 4) god requires "unity of doctrine.

megaboy

I see quoting scriptures no longer matters either. That faithful and discreet slave thing isn't even subtle. This is like an attempt to hold on to whatever people they have left.

35

The Governing Body are doubling down on dogma!

by DATA-DOG in

in case you were wondering if the governing body we're going to become kinder and gentler, the answer is a big "no!!!

in the current study edition of the wt magazine, the sheeple are reminded of some very important key points.

1) god has an organization ( corporation ) that you must respect.. 2) only the gb/faithful slave can dispense spiritual food and only the gb/faithful slave can interpret the bible.. 3) individual dubs absolutely cannot learn "truth" on their own.. 4) god requires "unity of doctrine.

megaboy

This is hilarious, its like they just roll with whatever nonsense they feel like publishing in their next piece of trash. Contradictions don't matter lol.

22

Why would Jehovah give Satan rulership of the World.?

by smiddy in

romans 13 : 1-7 "let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities" etc,"the existing authourities stand placed in their relative positions by god" 2".therefore he who opposers the authourity has taken a stand against the arrangement of god ,those who have taken a stand against it will recieve judgement to themselves "etc,etc,.."..to him who calls for honour such honour.".

isnt this plainly stating that christians should be supporting and playing along with the governments of this sytem of things ?

that it is in fact an arrangement of god ?

megaboy

I thought it was obvious that up until the ressurection, Satan had free access to the heavenly realm where he was accusing the brothers as he did with Job? And the end times started when the Son ascended the throne and kicked him out? So even within the first century it was considered the end times.

What kind of stupidity is this 1914 joke?

9

Did Jesus really say: “If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also”? (Mathew 5:39)

by anointed1 in

if we apply to the above verse jesus’ own criterion (“every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit”—mathew 7:17) we will know that it is unlikely that jesus did say it.. when i practiced it, i found that i was encouraging others to slap (whether in its literal or figurative sense) me more and more.

the same is happening in large scale when countries practice tolerance.

we know many countries who “turn the other cheek” when attacked, and it only invites more trouble (which means jesus’ advice is counterproductive).. but see what happens if you return more than what you receive in view of the principle god himself follows.

megaboy

For the two questions directed to me.

1) Its in the Hebrew culture to illustrate this way, exaggerated illustrations don't always work for some people, but his main audience would get it. He also did this because it would seperate people who don't care with people who did. Basically like how he drew a line in the sand during the Exodus.

2) Depending on what you read in hebrew works, they have works implying that in the end times the nations are actually diliberately working agaisnt him and know exactly what they are doing, even anticipating his return. I read one piece even saying that even though they were terrified of him they were dead set on attacking him. There was no peacable option in the cards, no misunderstandings.

22

Why would Jehovah give Satan rulership of the World.?

by smiddy in

romans 13 : 1-7 "let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities" etc,"the existing authourities stand placed in their relative positions by god" 2".therefore he who opposers the authourity has taken a stand against the arrangement of god ,those who have taken a stand against it will recieve judgement to themselves "etc,etc,.."..to him who calls for honour such honour.".

isnt this plainly stating that christians should be supporting and playing along with the governments of this sytem of things ?

that it is in fact an arrangement of god ?

megaboy

Apparently some "non-canon" - (which isn't really a valid label if you do research) scripts label this realm a prision, satan was sent here first. The garden was on a slightly different plane, when adam and eve were tricked their natures placed them in this realm under satans authority, requiring them to be redeemed from Satan.

Witnesses believe a lot of stuff that screws up their ability to answer other questions. For example because they don't believe in hell, it screws up their ability to explain demons, which aren't angels but spirits of nephlim, because they aren't natural, they don't have a place to go after death, so they just dwell in this plane tormenting people waiting for their judgement.

I've read a lot of other interesting stuff concerning old hebrew text about them, one in particular described one of them claiming that humans err when assuming that they are seeing flying stars. and that its actually the energy they create trying to get into the heavenly realm but exahusting themselves and falling back down to earth as a flame of energy. I think that same text I read mentions when they get close to the heavens they can hear certain decrees like when its time for someone to pass on and the like.

9

Did Jesus really say: “If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also”? (Mathew 5:39)

by anointed1 in

if we apply to the above verse jesus’ own criterion (“every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit”—mathew 7:17) we will know that it is unlikely that jesus did say it.. when i practiced it, i found that i was encouraging others to slap (whether in its literal or figurative sense) me more and more.

the same is happening in large scale when countries practice tolerance.

we know many countries who “turn the other cheek” when attacked, and it only invites more trouble (which means jesus’ advice is counterproductive).. but see what happens if you return more than what you receive in view of the principle god himself follows.

megaboy

I've thought for a long time that when these things were said, it implied that the community in that day and age was not nearly as stupid as people today. Today the average Christain looking at that saying is a recipe for disaster.

The ancient hebrew culture is extremely expressive. So knowing that, if you look at the original law he was countering, "an eye for an eye", it was basically the hard lesson on doing to others what you want done to you, this way you could avoid having your eye taken altogther. BUT if a person is consumed by the desire to get back at someone, it creates an endless cycle.

What he was saying is that a person should seek to make peace over seeking revenge. It was a fancy way of saying "you would seek revenge, but at what cost?"

It is fine standing up for yourself when need be. It is foolish to roll over and get kicked in the face willingly.

Also the western empire was causing issues in Japan, causing them to bite back, I'm assuming its not propagated in secular history books because they don't want people realizing that the western empire is much worse than even portrayed in the media and what they do allow in public history courses. This wasnt a case of Japan learning a lesson, but the cycle causing serious damage to one party. Because the western world has causes so much violence, particularly the US, a lot of money goes into military. Its similar to how a crook goes on so long and now no longer has rest and has to station himself in a hide out ot base with tons of weapons.

55

Quality of newer membership

by Lostandfound in

on a previous post mamacita29 pointed up the low quality of new jw converts.. is the quality falling even more as the society use lower than low meeting, talks, broadcasts etc.. when i was active initially the organisation and standards seemed totally different today.

i have seen hard working intelligent elders fall by death or exhaustion.

the younger generation that came along never really grasped responsibility hence shortage of good elders, never mind the watered down to almost nothing quality of meetings.

megaboy

Wanted to say that I while I think JWdaghter's post is good I don't think it is the definite scenario to the situation. Intelligence has nothing to do with being pulled into a trap, you can just be ignorant or lack information. Being stupid comes from willfull ignorance or having no desire to learn at all, failing to apply any level of critical thinking. From what I read the old format of the org created the illusion of this, but today it seems they don't bother. And just go straight to the brainwashing tactics convincing people to come via conditional displays of love. There seems to be nothing to develop them into reasonable challenge in debate, these guys would be eaten alive by first century opponents like Celsus.

By comparison, I'd say besides the cult like destructive nature of the org, its illusion of psedou intellectual strucure that it seems to have had in the past is a bit better than most Western Christian platforms today. If they got rid of the glass wall blocking independent research (which would obviously destroy them), they would deffinitely 1up most western christianity education structures.

Going deep into ancient studies on my own, I've found that a lot of "Gate Keeper" scholars for Christianity in the west will actually blantantly lie, and use their PhD title as an excuse to trust them, from there, they can omit the need to fully site sources and will do as the org does and take sources completely out of context, and hope you are too stupid to fully read the source that they do bother to give you.

No different than the WT really, only its not constrained to the cult and anyone can go to it. The WT org is just an isolated case of a bigger issue.

14

Overcoming the influence of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Christophoros in

some things that have helped me in my journey... .

since a major part of what the watchtower society does, involves the twisting of the real meaning of the bible and specific verses... it makes sense to me, whether a person has some kind of belief in the bible or not, to go to the source of the twisting, get it's real meaning, unravel the the knots and chains, and walk free.. for me, a huge part of the unravelling process has been spending time in the gospels.. the pharisees.... i used to read the gospels, and listen to audio bibles, and every time the pharisees showed up, i would sign/groan/mockingly laugh:.

matthew 9. matthew 23 .

megaboy

For their use of demons they don't seem to really have deep info on them according to hebrew lore. They imply that they are this omnipontent force when they have to be summoned or invited to cling to humans and tend to habitat very specific areas of the earth.

Of course that doesnt mean there's not some kind of demon or spirit over this organization. All it would take is one higher up dealing with it.

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

megaboy

Maybe you could read some of the stuff your parents gave you and write up and counter everything you can, siting sources and complete proof. That way you dont have to talk to them and go through emotional loops in a conversation. They'll have the document to have a clear understanding.

A rotten tree can NEVER produce good fruit. A house that is built on a faulty foundation can not support itself.