Posts by tec

54

For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...

by tec in

the people in the ot made mistakes about what god wanted and expected from them.

some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful.

jesus clearly states this:.

tec

Morning everyone!

Thanks for the rose and thumbs up, Sylvia... and yes, Awildflower, I suppose I did ask for the blasting. I just think it is important that we view God through Jesus, as he said, to have a true understanding of Him.

"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him." (Thanks, Yiz. I don't know how to copy and paste my Mac. The functions work differently)

Keyser- I'm not accepting as inspired things that only harmonize with my pre-conceived ideas. My ideas about God come from Jesus. And I know that some of the things that Jesus said are in conflict with some OT understandings.

But take for example what Gladring posted above. Matt 5:18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no way pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Didn't Jesus then then go on to further clarify those laws, expanding our understanding of them? If people had them right, then why would he do that?

Do not murder meant also do not be angry with your brother. Eye for eye/tooth for tooth became do not repay evil with evil at all, but 'turn the other cheek.' If the least stroke of a pen was not to fall from the law until all was fulfilled, (although Jesus completed the work his Father sent him to do with his death, resurrection and the gift of the holy Spirit) then perhaps this is the way the Israelites were meant to understand it... but they were unwilling.

For example... when Jesus speaks of the sword, he is speaking of judgment. "I will come and fight against them with the sword of my mouth." Many times when he speaks of death, he speaks of spiritual death, and that given by the sword. The Israelites put to physical death anyone who broke the law of God.

Even in the OT, prophets admonished the people for their misunderstanding.

Jeremiah 8:19 - How can you say, 'we are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

Words and such could have been misunderstood. I'm not saying that they were, but it is certainly possible, and it makes sense to me. Moses did have to give certain laws because the people would not accept anything better. (Certificate of divorce) Jesus came and showed us what is better; and those who could accept him did accept him.

Pixiesticks - thanks for posting the scriptures and verses. I know I haven't fully addressed wars and such, and I'm not ignoring you, but I'm going to be late for work:) Will get back to you.

Tammy

54

For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...

by tec in

the people in the ot made mistakes about what god wanted and expected from them.

some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful.

jesus clearly states this:.

tec

Sorry Gladiator. Didn't mean to label you with anything. I sometimes forget that while people might not believe in the bible, they can still have faith/spirituality... in Christianity or elsewhere... or they can be searching for their own conclusion, as you say.

Maybe I should clarify my statement... but I believe that if something is in conflict with what Jesus said, then I think it was misunderstood or misapplied by whoever was listening and wrote it down. Possibly even translated wrong; or possibly we just do not understand it, or I do not understand it. But Jesus said that he and his father were one (I take that spiritually/ one in mind and heart) and therefore, whatever loving attributes that Jesus has, his father has them also.

I put my faith in Jesus; not in anything that I may have personally concluded. My understandings grow and change as I do... and sometimes they also take a step back as I make mistakes. But I do believe in Jesus. Even if he was not the Messiah, I would believe in Jesus for the love and compassion and humility that he taught, and the example that he led. I would still try my best to follow that example. And since I believe in him, since I both trust and love him... and HE loved his Father... then his Father must be someone worthy of that love.

BTW everyone, I'm a little rusty on my chapters and verses in the OT. So even though I believe Jesus teachings take precedence over the OT, even what he taught about his Father, could you please point me to the general area of the war or genocide or atrocity that you're referring to when you reference the OT?

Also, its 2:30 am here, and I've got to get up with the kids in a handful of hours. Thanks for everyone who is responding. I'll be back in the am... the much later am, that is:)

Tammy

54

For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...

by tec in

the people in the ot made mistakes about what god wanted and expected from them.

some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful.

jesus clearly states this:.

tec

Cameo-d - I think I remember a law written in the OT about circumcising a boy on the eighth day... though I'd have to search for it. But Jesus is the one who said that entire line to the jews, so at the very least, they believed that Moses gave them that law. And no, I don't remember the story on the circumcision of Moses son.

54

For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...

by tec in

the people in the ot made mistakes about what god wanted and expected from them.

some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful.

jesus clearly states this:.

tec

Gladiator - I'm definitely not trying to discredit the OT with the NT. But even some of the OT prophets admonish the Israelites for their lack of mercy, hypocrisy, and empty rites. I just think the OT can be best understood with the NT in mind. And I think Jesus explains why he didn't come 4000 years ago when he says, "Jerusalem, how I have longed to gather your children together... but you were not willing." Also, the law of love of God and neighbor was OT. See 2John 5. I also agree that the words of Jesus and the words of Jehovah are the same, but Jesus is the Word of God... so if something is in conflict with what he said, then I think it was misunderstood.

On a side note... I'm more than happy to debate atheism vs. theism with you anytime. I don't think I can change your views, any more than you can change mine, but a friendly debate always keeps the mind sharp :)

Outlaw - Most people don't mind Jesus. Many people love him. Even Ghandi said he didn't mind our Jesus... just not the christians failing to live up to their own beliefs.

54

For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...

by tec in

the people in the ot made mistakes about what god wanted and expected from them.

some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful.

jesus clearly states this:.

tec

WTWizard - I don't really know what to say to you. I've read your other posts, and I don't know where you're coming from. Jesus condemned Satan. Jesus also said that he loved the Father and always did what the Father wanted him to do. John 12:50 - So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

Jesus also said that he did not have to surrender to his arrest. Matthew 26:53 "Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?"

Plus, if you think everything in the NT was mistaken or corrupted, then where do you even get your views of Jesus? And Paul wasn't the only person writing the NT.

T

54

For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...

by tec in

the people in the ot made mistakes about what god wanted and expected from them.

some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful.

jesus clearly states this:.

tec

cameo-d -- I think all Christians believe circumcision is invalid. Paul says that neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any meaning. The law never saved anyone; grace through faith is what saves people. It is that heart that matters.

Perhaps I should have used a different scripture; didn't mean to confuse, and I'm new at this. The point of Jesus example, I think, was that the jews broke even their own Sabbath laws, because Moses commanded that all boys had to be circumcised on the eighth day of his birth... which would have often fallen on a Sabbath day. But they would condemn others for doing good or necessary things on the Sabbath. They were nit-picky, judgmental, and hypocritical at once.

Tammy

54

For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...

by tec in

the people in the ot made mistakes about what god wanted and expected from them.

some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful.

jesus clearly states this:.

tec

The people in the OT made mistakes about what God wanted and expected from them. Some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful. Jesus clearly states this:

Matthew 18:30 - Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

The Israelites were also unwilling to heed the will of God:

Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"

He also clarifies a few other laws:

Matthew 5:33 - "Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord. But I tell you, do not swear at all... simply let your yes be yes and your no, no; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."

Matthew 5:38-42 - "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also..."

Matthew 5:43-48 - "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..."

Jesus taught us to love one another, to forgive one another (from the heart), to show compassion to the poor- in spirit and in possessions.

He taught us not to judge.

He gave approval to the humble, and condemned the arrogant and the hypocrites.

He taught us to be merciful, just as his father is merciful; for God is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

He taught us, 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And that the greatest commands of the law are 'Love God' and 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. All the prophets and the law hang on these.

If this is so, then we begin to understand which laws were put into effect because the people were hard-hearted or unwilling to permit that love to guide them. He also argued against all those who had been wrongly condemned, insisting that the Pharisees and teachers of the law to go and learn what this means, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice."

And he did expect us to be able to make a right decision on our own. For example, when the Pharisees and teachers of the gave him and his disciples grief for healing or picking food to eat on the Sabbath, he says:

Matthew 12:11 - "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not lift it out?"

and

John 7:23-24 - "If a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath? Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment."

Sometimes Jesus said a lot by not addressing things that the jews did. For example, Jesus said that divorce was permissible on the grounds of adultery. Nowhere did he say we should stone the adulterer. Jesus is in fact silent when the jews bring him a woman caught in adultery. Only after they keep harassing him, did he say, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'

The bottom line is that we learn about God from Jesus; not from the law. Whether the law was in place because the hebrews misunderstood, or were hard-hearted, or were unwilling/unable to follow anything better than what they had, Jesus came and taught us what his Father wanted from us: love and mercy.

2 John 5 - "And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love."

Tammy

27

Response to the Argument that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Cult Members

by bluecanary in

this is in response to the ezine article the argument that jehovah's witnesses are not cult members:.

this article is dangerously misinformed about (a) what constitutes a cult and (b) that the jws do in fact fit this category.

there is ample evidence of mind control, manipulation and cult tactics in this group, but you will not see it by casually chatting with a witness.

tec

It says there are three comments on this Ezine article. How do you see them? When I click it, I just get shown a place to add a comment.

Bluecanary... I'm glad you responded. A lot of people don't take the time to review the sources where the information in an article came from. They just believe it because someone said it, and it's infuriating when you know that something being said is so blatantly false.

T

5

Do they still teach them to Discipline their children?

by Snoozy in

i was reading some older posts on a thread about beating your children.

i noticed some on there commented that the witnesses no longer teach that.. they did however say that the fact to not "spare the rod" is handed down to the next generation.. anyone have the current teaching of the witnesses on this?.

a funny thing i read in the thread was an example the wtbts gave of how animals discipline their kids..they spank them..for thier own good!.

tec

Its been almost two years since I stopped my bible study, but I was taught that some parents use spanking as discipline and some don't. It is the choice of the parent.

T

11

How to do communion?

by matrixx in

jw
friends

i was talking to a friend about the importance of doing communion.

that it is not simply the passing of the bread and the wine as an observer but the partaking of the emblems.

she asked, " how often do you do communion?

tec

Thanks BTS. I hope everyone realizes that I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing; just wondering where the ritual originated, and if it was a 'law of God' or merely a 'tradition of man'. Although, if the tradition of man is not in contradiction with the law of God, then I can't see any harm, and in fact the physical aid for a spiritual matter would strengthen many. I just know that many people think that unless you have communion, then you have no hope in salvation; no relationship with Christ... that I think would be a tradition of man that is not in agreement with law of love of God.

'I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never go thirsty... For my father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:35-40

T