For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...

by tec 54 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • tec
    tec

    The people in the OT made mistakes about what God wanted and expected from them. Some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful. Jesus clearly states this:

    Matthew 18:30 - Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

    The Israelites were also unwilling to heed the will of God:

    Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"

    He also clarifies a few other laws:

    Matthew 5:33 - "Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord. But I tell you, do not swear at all... simply let your yes be yes and your no, no; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."

    Matthew 5:38-42 - "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also..."

    Matthew 5:43-48 - "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..."

    Jesus taught us to love one another, to forgive one another (from the heart), to show compassion to the poor- in spirit and in possessions.

    He taught us not to judge.

    He gave approval to the humble, and condemned the arrogant and the hypocrites.

    He taught us to be merciful, just as his father is merciful; for God is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

    He taught us, 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And that the greatest commands of the law are 'Love God' and 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. All the prophets and the law hang on these.

    If this is so, then we begin to understand which laws were put into effect because the people were hard-hearted or unwilling to permit that love to guide them. He also argued against all those who had been wrongly condemned, insisting that the Pharisees and teachers of the law to go and learn what this means, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice."

    And he did expect us to be able to make a right decision on our own. For example, when the Pharisees and teachers of the gave him and his disciples grief for healing or picking food to eat on the Sabbath, he says:

    Matthew 12:11 - "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not lift it out?"

    and

    John 7:23-24 - "If a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath? Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment."

    Sometimes Jesus said a lot by not addressing things that the jews did. For example, Jesus said that divorce was permissible on the grounds of adultery. Nowhere did he say we should stone the adulterer. Jesus is in fact silent when the jews bring him a woman caught in adultery. Only after they keep harassing him, did he say, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'

    The bottom line is that we learn about God from Jesus; not from the law. Whether the law was in place because the hebrews misunderstood, or were hard-hearted, or were unwilling/unable to follow anything better than what they had, Jesus came and taught us what his Father wanted from us: love and mercy.

    2 John 5 - "And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love."

    Tammy

  • shamus100
    shamus100

    That's nice.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    tec: "John 7:23-24 - "If a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken,"

    If you are expected to obey the big ten, doesn't that mean you need to keep the law of circumcision, too? Are most JWs circumsized as well in keeping with this law? Or do JWs think it is invalid?

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    Sorry, not feeling it.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Trouble is, Jesus' words were written down 40+ years after they happened. That is plenty of time to become corrupt, and Paul mistook Jesus the wrong way. That gave the writers ample opportunity to mess up the transcripts. I would definitely not accept this transcript in court on the grounds that they had plenty of time for the memories to become corrupt.

    In actuality, Jesus was not on God's side. Jesus was trying to set a people free from God, and died trying. Jesus wanted people to think for themselves, not always blindly obey authority. Compare this with Satan's original message "You will become like God, knowing good from bad". From this comparison, it becomes obvious that Jesus was the second Satan--and both tried to liberate mankind from God's tyranny.

  • tec
    tec

    cameo-d -- I think all Christians believe circumcision is invalid. Paul says that neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any meaning. The law never saved anyone; grace through faith is what saves people. It is that heart that matters.

    Perhaps I should have used a different scripture; didn't mean to confuse, and I'm new at this. The point of Jesus example, I think, was that the jews broke even their own Sabbath laws, because Moses commanded that all boys had to be circumcised on the eighth day of his birth... which would have often fallen on a Sabbath day. But they would condemn others for doing good or necessary things on the Sabbath. They were nit-picky, judgmental, and hypocritical at once.

    Tammy

  • tec
    tec

    WTWizard - I don't really know what to say to you. I've read your other posts, and I don't know where you're coming from. Jesus condemned Satan. Jesus also said that he loved the Father and always did what the Father wanted him to do. John 12:50 - So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

    Jesus also said that he did not have to surrender to his arrest. Matthew 26:53 "Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?"

    Plus, if you think everything in the NT was mistaken or corrupted, then where do you even get your views of Jesus? And Paul wasn't the only person writing the NT.

    T

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    tec - you seem to be using the new testament to discredit the old.

    Millions of people suffered under an unworkable law covenant provided by your god - Why didn't Jesus come 4000 years earlier and provide the new testament first?

    If the Israelites were too hard hearted then, how has human nature changed?

    Why should you put your faith in the words of Jesus and reject the words of Jehovah when Christians claim they are one and the same.

    To admit that the whole bible is a disjointed collection of rumour, guesswork and make-believe from men struggling to make sense of their existence and failing, would be a giant step forward for you.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    I don`t mind Jesus..

    Jehovah is a Phsycopath..

    He definitly needs counseling..

    And ..

    Should never be let out in Public..

    ................... ...OUTLAW

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Clearly, if one looks with objective eye, the three biblical constructs: 1] of Jesus [or God for most Christians], 2] of the OT Yahweh, and 3] Satan have mutual purposes. The purpose of all is control of the religious masses that ascribe to them. Never are these constructs in personal contact with people are they? They are always in written form, or more often in 'interpretive' form, interpreted by the body or man who wants to control those who submit to that control.

    The OT God construct was a failure. It did not work too well, as evidenced by the great problems that beset the subscribers to that writ. The NT reconstructed God in a manner that has worked to control better and longer than the OT God. Still, it's inevitable ties to the OT God construct are undeniable and ugly under scrutiny.

    There is far more supportive text to show that the Bible God construct is tyrannical than there is to support his loving nature as most Christians want to believe. Of course, since she was only created in man's image, not much more could be expected, could it?

    Peace

    Jeff

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