Posts by C0ntr013r

138

My Mother Died Two Weeks Ago

by Perry in

jw
friends

none of my jehovah's witness relatives called to tell me or my family.

just found out this morning.

C0ntr013r

That is horrible!...

My condolences Perry

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

C0ntr013r

I believe that the Universe is full of order and disorder but not intelligence nor, by my definition, "design". Why would a creator god smash two galaxies together with the horrific results that occur? It makes sense when you use non-anthropomorphic terms. It's spontaneous order and disorder that makes our Universe.

Why would a creator god smash two galaxies together with the horrific results that occur?

Not a very strong argument. It is similar to these;

Why would a creator start a forest fire? Hurricane, or any other destructive fenomenen in the universe?

A simple explanation would be that it is the cycle of creation, destroy and recreate.

If you know how the universe started you would also know that these systems are a driving force in the creation of the universe we have today.

However, to say that all these complex systems and galaxies where created for us humans in our small corner of the universe is quite ridiculous and arrogant...

With my use of "creation" I am not implying a creator, it is just for lack of a better word.

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

C0ntr013r

I have no interest in arguing against deism. It seems like such a vacuous position it isn't worth bothering about.

Except Gnostic Deism that is? ;)

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

Excellent explanation, I think this issue is often confused in these debates, and it just turns into a free for all flame war between; Atheists vs Theists vs Desists vs Agnostics vs Gnostic, and any combination of the different ideologies.

7

Saved

by Stephanie Twist in

how can a person be saved?

do jw believe that we are saved through the blood of jesus?

bible verses?

C0ntr013r

Most JWs are "saved" through Jesus through their organisation ;)

No bible verse for that, it is because of the fact that the new testament was written for the anointed. Reason? It it obvious when you read it and if you cant see it... It is because God is keeping it from you/has not reveled it to you...

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up :P

447

Does Anyone Still Believe in God?

by LaurenM in

do any of you ex-jw's still believe in god?

even with the new rebranding/softening of this religion, i still don't see how people can believe in him.

the god of the old testimate is an angry murderer who approved rapes and slavery and killed thousands of men, women and children.

C0ntr013r

freemindfade

Why use the word 'God' as all? What can you claim about this.... idea? Is it he? She? It? Them? A series of never ending responsible parties? The monolith from 2001? what is 'God'????
The minute you say 'God' you have attached the idea of a personality solely responsible and above everything.
You call what you do not understand 'God' instead of just, unknown. Or undiscovered yet, because every discovery you reveal, god is not there.
You see the grand canyon and you say god must have carved this, then you find out no, it was water, well what is water made of, and you keep going and going and you find no 'God' just more elements making up reality, not a person.

A good way to differentiate between the two concepts is to use God/deity when referring to a powerful being in the universe vs a personal God/Gods.

I agree with your point but there might be a straw-man lurking in the argumentation, I don't even think God of the gaps where used by stuffwotifink.

17

Annulment of baptism for a minor?

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i've seen references to baptism annulment on a few websites, does anyone know if there has ever been a successful annulment of a baptism?.

eg.

a minor claims they didn't understand a key wtbts teaching prior to baptism, is there any realistic chance of annulment?

C0ntr013r

I posted on this topic before:

Read entire thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/109423/do-disassociate-anull-your-baptism?size=20&page=1

If you read the elders hand book you can see that the only way to get your baptism annulled is if you where participating in sinful behavior before during and after your baptism that, if the eldest knew would have stopped you from getting baptized. They are advised to contact the branch to make sure thou, maybe there will be a way to disfellowship anyways...
It is worth a try if you want a "clean" exit.

If anyone want's to try it I would suggest that you first read the "rules" so you can play their "game".
Then you could go to the elders with a story (if it is fabricated or not wont matter). You can tell them that you where watching porn before during and after your baptism, you can say that you are distraught because you know deep down you never really got baptized and you hate living a lie, you never even gave your life to Jehovah in prayer... You just gave in to peer pressure etc.
Then if they decide to "grant your wish" you can start to fade instead of making progress towards your "real" baptism.
It is dishonest I know, but why play by their rules?
I don't know if this works in practice but it think it would have the best chance of working. I don't think bringing up doubt and reasons you don't believe anymore is going to help, that might just reveal the truth, that you are trying to escape without being DFed.

Yeah, if anyone tries please let us know how it goes.
One of the reasons it might fail is that the elders manual makes it very hard to actually pull it of. And if you say all the right things and manage to persuade the BOE, they are then supposed to call bethel for future instructions. So they might not grant it even if the BOE think it needs to be annulled...
It is important that you where sinning before and during the entire process because that is proof that Jehovah could not have accepted your dedication to him.
Don't forget to read everything about this before trying it, the elders manual is a good place to start.

95

Template to dump Special Pioneers

by avaddohn94 in

"downsizing" has reached special pioneers.. this is the template mexico is using to get rid of many of its special pioneers.

see how cold and unloving is the language they use.

a translation attempt is as follows:.

C0ntr013r

Maybe they are trying to "save" money this way :P

("money saving" starts at 1:30)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqvbv-SB4bg

5

First time unwitnessing to a stranger

by C0ntr013r in

i was sitting on a train, across from me was a middle-aged man reading: "knowledge that leads to everlasting life" .

it was in english which is not the native language here.

it was underlined so i figured he was either a foreign jw or a study.

C0ntr013r

I thanked him for the conversation and told him to be careful about "that" referring to the book.

In other word, I told him to be careful when it cones to the jws/jw publications.

I also told him that jw deny the deity of christ which they usually don't study until the person has been sucked in pretty far..

5

First time unwitnessing to a stranger

by C0ntr013r in

i was sitting on a train, across from me was a middle-aged man reading: "knowledge that leads to everlasting life" .

it was in english which is not the native language here.

it was underlined so i figured he was either a foreign jw or a study.

C0ntr013r

So...

I was sitting on a train, across from me was a middle-aged man reading: "knowledge that leads to everlasting life"

It was in English which is not the native language here.

It was underlined so I figured he was either a foreign Jw or a study.

I was thinking of how I might be able to "help" his family and potential children if I could just say something...

If someone would have done that for my parents/grandparents, maybe things would have been much different. I would proudly never been born, but still. :P

Most people never get that, nobody gives them another point of view or says something that makes them think.

Unfortunately I am not comfortable talking to strangers like this and where I live, NOBODY talks to strangers like this.

The man bought som nuts on the train and offered me some. I saw the opertunity and took it :)

I asked about the book he was reading, he did not say much. He almost seemed a little reluctant to talk about it.

He said something about growing closer to God. He then asked me if I believed in God, I told him honestly that I don't know (agnostic).

Why not, was the next question. I said that the problem for me is that there are too many God's to choose from. If I am to belive in God, which one should I pick? The Muslim, Christian or some of the Hindu God's?

(My intent was not to argue against his believes, the thought of saying that since there is no proof for God's existence we can not conclude that he exists. But my focus was to warn this man, not discuss Gnostic Theism Vs Agnosticism)

He said that the only true God is the Christian God.

I asked him if he believes that Jesus is God. Of course he said and showed me the cross around his neck.

I told him that the reason I asked was because I recognized the book and I told him that "they" don't believe Jesus is God, they think he is an angel.

He told me that he was just curious about different views he also told me that we NEED someone to help us understand God's message...

I asked him which branch of Christianity he belonged to and he told me that it was all about Jesus and the Christian God and that the rest was irrelevant. He told me that him, me, everyone was God.

So I asked him if he meant that everyone was part of the body of christ or if he meant that everyone's collective essence was God.

I don't think he understood my point, so he changed the subject.

This is just my rough recollection of the conversation, we talked about a few other things but I don't remember it all.

It was a short conversation because I had to get off the train at the next station. I thanked him for the conversation and told him to be careful about "that" referring to the book.

I hope I might have messed with someone study :P

Unfortunately his confused beliefs are going to be picked apart by the Jws which will make him more prone to accept what they will be feeding him. Hopefully he will think twice because of my warning, or he will be even more curious, who knows...

I probably did a poor job of "helping" him, I can think of many things I should have done differently... But I am just happy that I actually said something :P

At least he got a warning which I think many (in hinecite) would have loved to get when they where in his situation.

Got me thinking about the saying: the only thing needed for evil "win" is for good men to do nothing.

I forget the exact wording.

It feels great to think that I might have done some good today, maybe he will start to question the information in the book and other publications. At least that is my hope :)