C0ntr013r

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Posts by C0ntr013r

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  46

  Wish You Knew? Ask a Jew!

  by CalebInFloroda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  because on another thread questions about just what the hell jews believe kept taking us off topic, i decided to start this new one.

  that's why, as you will notice, it has that new thread smell.

  i will do my best to give thorough and concise answers, but be warned: i do not take myself very seriously.

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  C0ntr013r

  I'll be back as soon as I can.

  Okay man, hope you get better soon! :)
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  46

  Wish You Knew? Ask a Jew!

  by CalebInFloroda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  because on another thread questions about just what the hell jews believe kept taking us off topic, i decided to start this new one.

  that's why, as you will notice, it has that new thread smell.

  i will do my best to give thorough and concise answers, but be warned: i do not take myself very seriously.

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  C0ntr013r

  When you perform mitzvah you "bring a little of G-d" into the world

  Why would this be important to a secular Jew since he does not believe in said deity? Or wouldn't it?
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  46

  Wish You Knew? Ask a Jew!

  by CalebInFloroda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  because on another thread questions about just what the hell jews believe kept taking us off topic, i decided to start this new one.

  that's why, as you will notice, it has that new thread smell.

  i will do my best to give thorough and concise answers, but be warned: i do not take myself very seriously.

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  C0ntr013r

  It's not about identifying with points of doctrine or making claim to or denying belief in this or that concept. It's about doing, responding, living,many enduring as a Jew.
  It's the opposite. It's want you DO, not what you believe.

  I understand what you mean by this.

  As you said earlier; it is the values that define you as a Jew, or as you said in this post; what you DO.

  But no matter what you define "Jewish" as, my question will still remain (maybe in some other form).

  [insert practice/belief/value here]"is the point to Judaism"

  If being Jewish is referring to:

  Your values

  What you do

  How you dress

  Your religious views

  Or something else, the question is still going to be:

  What about someone who is born into the tribe and who does not practice/identify with said thing?

  If the answer is yes he is still a Jew, that means that the answer you gave is not really what makes someone a Jew since they can be so without said thing.

  If the answer is no he is not a Jew, that means that there is a distinction between what makes some Jewish by birth and by practice/beliefs/values.

  Which was the original question I asked you; what is the distinction? And that would also be the answer to the question.

  Since I got the impression you don't think there is any distinction I am wondering if there is a third option that I have overlooked? Or you are incorrect and there is a distinction.

  Do you understand my question now? It has nothing to do with how hard it might be for me to grasp the idea of a religion without beliefs or doctrine or even belief in God, I can entertain all these ideas.

  We could do the same to philosophy if it was a tribe; what is the difference between someone born into it and someone practicing it? Philosophy has no God, no religious rules or rites, no leader, no religious beliefs. I don't want nor need any of these things to be present in Judaism, my question is outside that entire argument.

  Hope this clears it up!

  
  

  
  
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  46

  Wish You Knew? Ask a Jew!

  by CalebInFloroda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  because on another thread questions about just what the hell jews believe kept taking us off topic, i decided to start this new one.

  that's why, as you will notice, it has that new thread smell.

  i will do my best to give thorough and concise answers, but be warned: i do not take myself very seriously.

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  C0ntr013r

  Maybe this will help:
  CHRISTIANS...What you believe is what matters.
  JEWS...What good you bring into the world is what matters.
  CHRISTIANS...Your personal salvation is a priority.
  JEWS...Bringing healing to where it is needed is the priority.
  CHRISITANS...If you believe in the wrong doctrines it can cost you eternal life.
  JEWS...Beliefs hold no power to give you something you don't possess or have the power to achieve on your own.
  CHRISTIANS...You are more enlightened with your convictions than that of others and must convince or even bring down those who disagree with your views.
  JEWS...You are enlightened by all you meet for all are created in G-d's image (so to speak), and you must protect and fight for the right of freedom of conscience for all.

  Can you still be a Jew if you don't identify with any of these points?
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  46

  Wish You Knew? Ask a Jew!

  by CalebInFloroda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  because on another thread questions about just what the hell jews believe kept taking us off topic, i decided to start this new one.

  that's why, as you will notice, it has that new thread smell.

  i will do my best to give thorough and concise answers, but be warned: i do not take myself very seriously.

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  C0ntr013r

  These are the values of my culture, and I as a Jew believe in them. Whether I believe in a deity or not changes this not. Does any of that help?

  So since the values are the same whether you are a Jewish atheist or theist, it is not important that you believe in God but that you share these values? That makes you Jewish?

  What about a member of the Jewish tribe who don't identify with these values?

  We are not Jews because we believe in doctrines or concepts. There is no creed to celebrate Sabbath or hold a Seder. We are Jews, period.
  We do not believe in the concept of G-d, we respond to it and it various ways.

  And you lost me :P

  
  
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  46

  Wish You Knew? Ask a Jew!

  by CalebInFloroda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  because on another thread questions about just what the hell jews believe kept taking us off topic, i decided to start this new one.

  that's why, as you will notice, it has that new thread smell.

  i will do my best to give thorough and concise answers, but be warned: i do not take myself very seriously.

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  C0ntr013r

  My answer above was not directed at you, C0ntr013r, but...

  My apologies!

  "Belief" is not an important facet to the Jewish experience.

  Why should you hold the Sabbath and all the other rules of the Jewish culture if you don't believe it? Religious acts preformed by nonreligious people?

  Some of us are born Jews, some join the tribe, some are part of a synagogue, some have no affiliation. But we are united by a common origin and destiny. We all engage in some sort of public act that tells us and the world: I am also a Jew.

  So you make no distinction between the Jewish religion and the Jewish tribe, there is no distinction?

  
  

  
  

  
  
  
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  63

  How the Watchtower Screws Up Your View of Scripture

  by CalebInFloroda in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  while i do not argue the stand of atheism (because as a jew i find it totally logical and acceptable), i have noticed that there are odd carryover preconceptions about scripture that some hold as axiomatic about the bible (at least the hebrew texts), misconceptions that have nothing to do with the jewish scriptures themselves.. so regardless of what you may think of scripture, whether you believe it is of g-d or not, i thought some of you might enjoy a reference to see how much the watchtower teaching on scripture might still be influencing the conclusions you are making today...at least about the tanakh.

  jews read their texts acknowledging the following:.

  1. no scriptural concept of original sin.

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  C0ntr013r

  How about re-titling your "new" thread WISH YOU KNEW? ASK "ME", CALEB.

  The title says: ask "a" Jew, so the title works fine with "every single Jew has a different opinion"

  
  
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  46

  Wish You Knew? Ask a Jew!

  by CalebInFloroda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  because on another thread questions about just what the hell jews believe kept taking us off topic, i decided to start this new one.

  that's why, as you will notice, it has that new thread smell.

  i will do my best to give thorough and concise answers, but be warned: i do not take myself very seriously.

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  C0ntr013r

  First of all if you want to do is equate Judaism with JW and Christianity then that is your preorogative.

  Not my intention, I could put atheists and agnostics on the list too if it makes you feel better. My point was that you don't need decisive answers to every question to understand the belief system.

  We are a Tribe of theists, atheists, agnostics, believers, unbelievers. Some of us believe in prayer. Some of us don't believe in prayer.

  Jews are not a religion. We are not a race. We are a Tribe. A tribe of various beliefs, of multiple convictions, of one origin, one path, one destiny.
  

  How do you make the distinction between a Jewish man by birth and a Jewish man by religious views? Perhaps someone who has converted to Judaism?
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  7

  Who resurrected Jesus from death?

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  a friend received this email from his jw brother.

  they have not been close since.

  his brother became a jw.

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  C0ntr013r

  From a Trinitarian standpoint. Which the watchtower misrepresented in pretty much every article on the subject....

  The God head is made up by 3 persons but 1 God.

  If 1 of the persons (Jesus) dies, one of the other persons can resurrect him (in this case the Father).

  Same thing with most of hem:

  Who resurrected Jesus?

  Who did Jesus pray to?

  Why did Jesus talk about God?

  How can the Father be greater than Jesus?

  And so on...
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  83

  Do not Disassociate, Anull your baptism

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am now a jedi, so trust me on this.. .

  why dis-associate, you are just playing by the wts rules?

  how can you dis-associate anyway, you never thought you were baptised as a watchtower society member, you thought your dedication was to god, so why formally disassociate from something you did not formally join?

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  C0ntr013r

  If anyone want's to try it I would suggest that you first read the "rules" so you can play their "game".

  Then you could go to the elders with a story (if it is fabricated or not wont matter). You can tell them that you where watching porn before during and after your baptism, you can say that you are distraught because you know deep down you never really got baptized and you hate living a lie, you never even gave your life to Jehovah in prayer... You just gave in to peer pressure etc.

  Then if they decide to "grant your wish" you can start to fade instead of making progress towards your "real" baptism.

  It is dishonest I know, but why play by their rules?

  I don't know if this works in practice but it think it would have the best chance of working. I don't think bringing up doubt and reasons you don't believe anymore is going to help, that might just reveal the truth, that you are trying to escape without being DFed.