Simple word leavingwt: Hermeneutics. Both Christians and Evolutionists seem to be understanding it now-a-days.
brotherdan
JoinedPosts by brotherdan
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127
Disrespect of the Bible
by brotherdan ini am going to get a lot of flack for this post, but i need to do it.
i want to preface this by saying that i don't judge any of you and i believe in the right of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including your freedom to not practice one.. however, i'm finding a trend among some ex jws here.
notice the word "some".
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144
The False Prophet Nathan?
by brotherdan inmy mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
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brotherdan
You also contradict yourself in your use of scripture. 1Peter says that prophecy comes from God. If the prophecy does not come from God it is a false prophecy. You like to avoid that word, don't you? It makes me think you don't understand what it means.
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144
The False Prophet Nathan?
by brotherdan inmy mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
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brotherdan
So it's ok to enforce the belief in these false prophecies? Is it ok to enforces a speculation?
Please don't say that the WT does not enforce this. I will show you the letters written to the elders that states that an apostate is one that has beliefs different from the Watchtower and they do not necessarily have to communicate these beliefs to others. Having the belief or non belief is enough.
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154
Last Night's Intervention
by brotherdan ini'm afraid of starting a new post because i've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... but i still love you guys.. last night i went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how i'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking".
my wife said, "i am unable to fight you with the bible because you know more than me about it.
but k** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.. so my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion.
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brotherdan
I'm afraid of starting a new post because I've stepped on a few feet here with my last post... But I still love you guys.
Last night I went home to find my wife and her friend on the couch with the bible, ready to show me how I'm wrong and exercising "apostate thinking". My wife said, "I am unable to fight you with the Bible because you know more than me about it. But K** knows more and will be able to show you how you are wrong.
So my wife went into the other room so as not to be stumbled by my discussion. It got a bit heated. We mostly discussed false prophecy. It was actually interesting because I heard some defenses that I hadn't come across yet. She was very aware of false prophecies in the past. But she held that they were not prophecies. I asked her to define the term "False Prophecy". She struggled around between someone that sets a definite date and time and says that that date and time came from God, and someone who doesn't correct their mistaken false prophecy. I told her that the society has done both things. Unfortunately all my research and WT articles are at work so as not to cause a problem with my wife. So I was unable to show her direct quotes.
Most of the time was spent doging questions and her trying to prove that JWs are doing things that NO ONE ELSE is doing. She used the age old misquote from Peter "Where else should we go to?" I tried to make her see that Peter was talking about JESUS. WHO else could we go to? I thought I gave a good fight, but the false prophecy issue went nowhere. It actually surprises me that they refuse to see it. I think if someone would have discussed this with me YEARS ago, I would've listened and seen the truth. I actually wish someone would've.
One interesting thing happened though. I brought up the double standards that the WT has had through the years. I gave her the experience of the Malawi and Mexican Witnesses that was discussed in Crises of Conscience. She was silent and eventually said...."That really disturbs me". I couldn't believe it. I thought that was the weakest and most unbiblical of my arguments. I begged her to read the book and assured her that it wasn't an angry hate filled book. She didn't commit, but I'm going to follow up.
Also, I was very weary of talking to someone else about these issues. She is an active faithful JW. I told her that if the elders knew that I talked to her about this I could be disfellowshiped for "causing divisions". She made a promise not to talk to them and that our convo was in confidence. I know that is not 100% reassuring, but it was the best I could do. I still feel the need to make a defense for my faith.
One of the frustrating parts of the conversation is she kept bringing up that we were the only ones that do not believe in the trinity, hellfire, and immortal soul. I've actually seen how the WT has twisted the scriptures to support these ideas, so I'm not sure that any of these things are false. I think there is a large amount of support for all of them, especially the deity of Jesus.
Anyhow, this was my first chance to witness to someone. I'll keep you all up to speed with how it goes. Any advice for our next convo would be awesome.
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144
The False Prophet Nathan?
by brotherdan inmy mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
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brotherdan
People like Debator also like to bring up "This happened so long ago. Look how far back you have to go." Debator, explain to me why we don't use Christmas trees? Is it because of what they were used for HUNDREDS of years ago? They are not used that way today. Then why don't you use them? Isn't it different now? Apply that to your own leadership.
Also, we do not have to go back very far to see the WT claim inspiration and prophetic powers. They still claim it today. Yes, they say "We are not inspired", but then they say "We are not speaking mens words. We are speaking Jehovah's Words."
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144
The False Prophet Nathan?
by brotherdan inmy mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
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brotherdan
And this was NOT Rutherfords only mistake. He was an alcoholic abusive man with a power trip. Do your research.
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144
The False Prophet Nathan?
by brotherdan inmy mom is addicted to the wts.
i've recently brought up the many false prophecies and she calls almost every week to show me new things that the society has said about false prophets and how they are not one.. the latest was the account where king david wanted to build god a temple.
he told nathan the prophet about his idea and nathan basically said, well god is with you, you should do it.
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brotherdan
Is it a lie when people are forced to this "opinion"? Is it a false prophecy when it is not mearly bible speculation, but it is also enforced? Uncover your eyes, debator. Stop making excuses for evil men. I dont' see how Matthew 24:11 applies to many others BUT the WT. Over and over and over they have said that God promises something, when in fact he didn't.
Being ready and forcing others to believe in a prophetic speculation are 2 VERY different things.
Please, Debator, define in 1 or 2 sentences what the term "False Prophet" means to you?
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127
Disrespect of the Bible
by brotherdan ini am going to get a lot of flack for this post, but i need to do it.
i want to preface this by saying that i don't judge any of you and i believe in the right of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including your freedom to not practice one.. however, i'm finding a trend among some ex jws here.
notice the word "some".
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brotherdan
Thanks for the advice undercover. I will do just that.
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127
Disrespect of the Bible
by brotherdan ini am going to get a lot of flack for this post, but i need to do it.
i want to preface this by saying that i don't judge any of you and i believe in the right of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including your freedom to not practice one.. however, i'm finding a trend among some ex jws here.
notice the word "some".
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brotherdan
On the way out: The key word in my early posts on this topic was "TREND". I was not accusing anyone. I just noticed the trend. My further posts stated that I have NO problem with people that examine the Bible closely and come to a different decision than Christians. But I've personally noticed the trend to just say "Screw all of this. I'm leaving".
The comment about Jesus was a biblical one and yes, it is a feeling, but also based on biblical logic. We sin, we are condemned, we are bought with a price, without which we would be hopeless. I've read the statements by Carl Sagan about the lack of an after life, and I think that living that way would be depressing for me. However, that doesn't mean that I don't live everyday to the best. I love life. I love the wonder and joy of it. I love the extreme beauty that exists on earth. But I also have a hope for something else when all is said and done here.
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127
Disrespect of the Bible
by brotherdan ini am going to get a lot of flack for this post, but i need to do it.
i want to preface this by saying that i don't judge any of you and i believe in the right of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including your freedom to not practice one.. however, i'm finding a trend among some ex jws here.
notice the word "some".
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brotherdan
Thanks Mad Sweeny. I do have my BA in Marketing. I've taken comparative religion, my required sciences (astronomy, chemistry, biology) as well as other extra sociology classes.
I guess I have not been clear, as I have a tendency to do. Please don't think that I think I have all the answers. I am still learning. I don't know where I will be in a year or 10 years from now. Hopefully I will be a stronger more rounded out person. I can't rule anything out. Something that I learned being a JW is that claiming to know everything shows that you know nothing. I truly believe this goes for evolutionists and creationists. I truly believe that this is true wisdom. And should that be something depressing or sad? Never! That is the beauty of this world. We will never know it all. There is more beauty than we could ever imagine.I don't feel I've painted with a large brush, like Outlaw has said. If you examine the post name it's not "The Bible is TRUE" or "The accuracy of the Bible". It was "Disrespect for the Bible". Maybe the Bible is absolutely false and made up of lies created by men. But this does not mean that we trample on people that believe in it.
This goes for Christians too. We don't need to trample all over evolutionists or agnostic views either. We are all so caught up in converting each other that we lose sight of the beauty of our diversity.