Posts by JosephAlward

15

Bible Error: Where Did King Josiah Die?

by JosephAlward in

josiah, king of judah (640-609 b.c.

), was installed as king at the age of eight.

josiah attempted to restore the kingdom of david and was opposed by pharaoh necho of egypt in a battle at megiddo.

JosephAlward

Yeru, if the author knew that Josiah did not die at Megiddo, he never would have used words which any reader would interpret as meaning that Josiah did, indeed, die AT Megiddo, thereby forcing his readers to wait until they read the Chronicles story to learn that Josiah died somewhere else--at Jerusalem. Thus, we may conclude that the Kings author believed that Josiah died where he said he died, at Megiddo.

As for your second scenario, which is the one I accept: It doesn't matter at all that the stories are contradictory, unless you're a die-rather-than-admit-a-single Bible contradiction type of guy.

What "Goliath" contradiction do you have in mind?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

27

Bible Writers Believed the Earth Was Flat

by JosephAlward in

the best evidence that the bible teaches that the earth is flat is found in the following passages.

the first is in matthew: .

"[t]he devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them".

JosephAlward

Scorpion writes, "Surely you do not expect me or others to take your word or explanation as the undeniable truth as far as what you claim as the Bible teaching the earth to be flat?"

Alward responds:

How many times do I have to explain it to you, Scorpion? If you will tell me what's wrong with the argument I've already presented, I'll be happy to explain it further, or else add more evidence. I'm not going to bother to provide more evidence at this time, because I--and everyone else on this forum--could have every expectation that you would just declare the enhanced argument to be inadequate as well, and then I'd have to provide more evidence, and then you'd declare it to be inadequate, and this would go on forever.

What's so hard for you to understand, Scorpion? Have you never debated a point before? Just tell me and the other readers exactly what it is that you find lacking--and WHY--in the argument I've presented. If, in response to this, you for the FOURTH time come back without a reasoned rebuttal and say that you want more evidence, I'm going to have to ignore you. My time can be spent more productively with those who know how to--and are willing to--construct a logical argument.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

15

Bible Error: Where Did King Josiah Die?

by JosephAlward in

josiah, king of judah (640-609 b.c.

), was installed as king at the age of eight.

josiah attempted to restore the kingdom of david and was opposed by pharaoh necho of egypt in a battle at megiddo.

JosephAlward

Yeru suggests that "died at Megiddo" might mean "suffered mortal wound at Megiddo, but died somewhere else." Well, according to the Chronicles author, Josiah died at Jerusalem. Thus, Yeru is suggesting that the Kings author may have known that Josiah was only wounded at Megiddo, but actually died at Jerusalem. This doesn't make sense. What value could come from the Kings author leaving the impression that Josiah died at Megiddo? Isn't the most probable reason for the "apparent" discrepancy that the two authors had different understandings about the place of Josiah's death? Answering for myself, I say, Of course.

The other possibility suggested by Yeru is unlikely. If either of the Kings or Chronicles authors knew that they didn't know exactly where Josiah died, they should have said so. The fact that they didn't do that shows that perhaps other authors in other places in the Bible wrote things they weren't sure were true, but didn't tell us so. This explanation would be totally unacceptable to those who believe that the Bible is the word of a god who knows all there is to know. It's even unacceptable to those who believe that the Bible is the word of mere men, and that they made mistakes; in such a case, however, one may still fault the writers for not letting us know that they didn't know for sure where Josiah died. Alternatively, if they innocently were in possession of wrong information, then we are still faced with the problem of not knowing which others stories in the Bible are similarly flawed. Either way, the Bible is in error.

Now, Moxy has a healthy attitude toward the Bible, it seems: Not every--if any--word in the Bible was dictated by God, and that the 2 Timothy author was exaggerating when he said that "all scripture is God-breathed." One, or the other, of the Kings and Chronicles authors were wrong, perhaps both were, but this discrepancy is of zero importance in the larger scheme of things, which is the spiritual message of the Bible. Thus, Moxy implies, the Bible is in error in regards to the place of Josiah's death, but nobody should care.

I agree that people shouldn't care, but, unfortunately, there are those who regard questions of Bible error to be of life-or-death importance. If they are unable to believe that every word of the Bible is the perfect message of God, then they won't be able to believe with certainty that the Biblical instructions for eternal salvation are correct. Thus, if one cannot believe that, say, the Kings author really meant that Josiah received his wounds at Megiddo, but actually died at Jerusalem, their salvation is in jeopardy.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

32

Was Jesus a False Prophet?

by JosephAlward in

the bible says that a prophet who predicts something that does not occur is speaking words that the lord did not speak, but that is exactly what jesus did, if you can believe the author of mark.

here are the relevant verses:.

"when a prophet speaks in the name of the lord, if the word does not come about or come true, that is a word which the lord did not speak;" (deuteronomy 18:22).

JosephAlward

What kind of belief in the unbelievable do I have? None.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

6

Bible Error: The Sins of the Father

by JosephAlward in

the bible contradicts itself in the matter of punishing children for the sins of their fathers.

in one place is says that it is strictly forbidden, but in another the lord speaks of slaughtering sons for the sins of their forefathers, and in yet another place the lord orders the murder of suckling babes.

here is the evidence:.

JosephAlward

Scorpion,

I think everyone else on this forum knew that I wasn't suggesting that everything in the Bible was not to be believed or trusted, or accepted as good teaching. I was obviously referring to teachings or advice of an extraordinary nature, such as stoning to death of adulterers, methods of eternal salvation...things like that, not "Do unto others...."

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

27

Bible Writers Believed the Earth Was Flat

by JosephAlward in

the best evidence that the bible teaches that the earth is flat is found in the following passages.

the first is in matthew: .

"[t]he devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them".

JosephAlward

Scorpion,

Twice now I've explained that it's not enough for one to merely state that the argument of another is insufficient. Surely you don't expect people just to take your word for it, do you? You're expected to explain why the evidence or argument is lacking. If you don't want to do that, you probably should direct your attention to another thread.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

32

Was Jesus a False Prophet?

by JosephAlward in

the bible says that a prophet who predicts something that does not occur is speaking words that the lord did not speak, but that is exactly what jesus did, if you can believe the author of mark.

here are the relevant verses:.

"when a prophet speaks in the name of the lord, if the word does not come about or come true, that is a word which the lord did not speak;" (deuteronomy 18:22).

JosephAlward

Scorpion asks, "Now, if you would, please answer the question I asked earlier. Where does your faith lie? Or are you void of faith?"

Alward responds:

If by "faith" you mean unquestioning belief in that which cannot be proved, or that for which there is no evidence, then I have no faith. Or, if "faith" means to you a belief in a personal, caring god, I likewise have no faith, because I'm aware of no evidence that there's a god who cares about me, or anyone else.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

6

Bible Error: The Sins of the Father

by JosephAlward in

the bible contradicts itself in the matter of punishing children for the sins of their fathers.

in one place is says that it is strictly forbidden, but in another the lord speaks of slaughtering sons for the sins of their forefathers, and in yet another place the lord orders the murder of suckling babes.

here is the evidence:.

JosephAlward

The Bible contradicts itself in the matter of punishing children for the sins of their fathers. In one place is says that it is strictly forbidden, but in another the Lord speaks of slaughtering sons for the sins of their forefathers, and in yet another place the Lord orders the murder of suckling babes. Here is the evidence:

The Lord’s Rule: Don’t Punish Children for the Sins of the Fathers

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. (Deuteronomy 24:16)

The Lord Breaks His Rule and Punishes the Children

21 Prepare a place to slaughter his sons for the sins of their forefathers; they are not to rise to inherit the land and cover the earth with their cities. 22 "I will rise up against them," declares the LORD Almighty. "I will cut off from Babylon her name and survivors, her offspring and descendants," declares the LORD. (Isaiah 14:21-22)

Perhaps the most famous example of the Lord violating his own rule about not punishing children for the deeds of their fathers is found in 1 Samuel, where we find the Lord telling Samuel that the suckling babes are to be killed:

2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (1 Samuel 15:2-3)

This is just one more example of Bible error among others in a long list of errors, inconsistencies, and contradictions. If the Bible can be this contradictory regarding an important teaching relating to punishment for sins, how can the Bible be trusted to give good advice, or be truthful, in other matters?

15

Bible Error: Where Did King Josiah Die?

by JosephAlward in

josiah, king of judah (640-609 b.c.

), was installed as king at the age of eight.

josiah attempted to restore the kingdom of david and was opposed by pharaoh necho of egypt in a battle at megiddo.

JosephAlward

Moxy writes, "its not like there was a doctor there to pronounce him dead."

Alward responds:

For those who believe that the words in the Bible are God-breathed, they have to believe that God directed the writing of the account of Josiah's death, and that God certainly knew exactly how, when, and where Josiah died, even if there was no doctor there. The fact that there are two conflicting accounts of the place of Josiah's death shows that a god could not have "breathed" the words written by these authors, but this is in contradiction to 2 Timothy 3:16, which says that "all scripture is God-breathed."

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

32

Was Jesus a False Prophet?

by JosephAlward in

the bible says that a prophet who predicts something that does not occur is speaking words that the lord did not speak, but that is exactly what jesus did, if you can believe the author of mark.

here are the relevant verses:.

"when a prophet speaks in the name of the lord, if the word does not come about or come true, that is a word which the lord did not speak;" (deuteronomy 18:22).

JosephAlward

Bang wonders, "Surely you've considered that disciples who believe In Him can 'drink' the water of a different doctrine without harm to themselves."

Alward responds:

It is unimaginable that an all-knowing god would think that anyone would believe that the words "drink any deadly thing" actually meant "be exposed to other faiths."

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html