JosephMalik

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Posts by JosephMalik

• 
  31

  Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

  by wobble in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

  i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

  love.

  1. 
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• 

  JosephMalik

  TD,

  Right, that is in my manuscript as well. Jw's cannot read, think, teach the truth and are willing to die for the lies being taught them. Get out and quick. That is the best advice I can give them.

  Joseph
• 
  31

  Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

  by wobble in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

  i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

  love.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JosephMalik

  Wobble,

  Scripturally they are evil. 3Jo 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

  Joseph
• 
  31

  Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

  by wobble in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

  i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

  love.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JosephMalik

  Not sure who you mean when you say "they". From written accounts, including Paul's letter to the Corinthians, this was a ritual that was literally kept by early Christians.

  donuthole,

  That is why I will not bother with his post. Not worth my time.

  Joseph
• 
  31

  Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

  by wobble in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

  i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

  love.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JosephMalik

  Could you cite specific examples of this?

  Donuthole:

  Identified both ways here: It does not say and/or but it was still the same feast. Same in Mark

  Mr 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

  Introduced by the bread but showing that Passover was just a few hours away. So it is saying on the 14th when the passover was killed they would eat it along with the bread prepared on the same day (not date) of unleavened bread but in the evening when it became the 15th. Same in Mark

  Mr 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

  Luke was more explicit since he was writing to a mixed audience that did not understand the festival like the Jews did. But it is still saying the same thing. The feast (7days) of unleavened bread came, but that evening when the date would change which was also called Passover. Can you see how the sentence in introductory and time flows right through it? The lamb (also called Passover which does cause some confusion here) was only killed on the 14th just before cooking it and eating it while it was still hot. This is also why the Law allowed the continued preparation of it even if it was already Sabbath and they were running a little late. True they only needed this Lamb to start this feast but other things could be used for the remaining meals and yet the bread was consistently used for the entire festival.

  Lu 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
  Lu 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
  Lu 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

  John here uses the word passover for the feast itself not the slaughter of the lamb. Jews knew such use but many others would not and yet all this is clarified in the Gospels if we pay attention.

  Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

  When you look at the verses you have to visualize how time is moving forward and pay attention to where you are in its progression. Some simply cannot do that for some reason and a calendar can visualize it for them. So I provided a calendar.

  Donuthole said: Reviewing those scriptures in John it seems to be referring to the lamb. When it says the religious leaders wanted to be clean to "eat the Passover', I don't see how it could mean anything other than eating the lamb.

  As I said Passover came to be known by that name by then and John used it here but it still was the Festival of Unfermented bread and it did not have to include Lamb on any of the other days or times of this festival. The word used this way could trip you up but fish could be on the menu, or something else during subsequent meals of Passover yet unleavend bread was mandatory for all of them. And if they were unclean they could not eat any of the bread at all since fermented bread was also forbidden by Law during this feast. The Law prohibited the Jews from eating unfermented and fermented bread if unclean. A real problem since bread was the staple of any meal. Notice Luke 22:1. This bread (still called Passover) was eaten every day of the festivl. In fact old grain was used for the first six days and new grain was used for the 7th. Eze 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. This is what John was talking about. Passover is not about meat. It really is about the bread there being only one sacrifice using meat involved. And the time when our Lord died is not dependent upon the time the Lambs died either. There is no scripture NONE to support the WT view as to this timing. How can you kill thousands of Lambs over a period of three to five or more hours in the afternoon and have our Lord die exactly when they did? The point was not the hour of their death but the act itself during this week of Passover. Jesus ate the very Passover Lamb that depicted his sacrifice. Did anyone miss this fact? Then our Lord fulfilled the requirements of that Passover not some imaginary timing of it that the Watchtower insists on.

  Joseph
• 
  31

  Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

  by wobble in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

  i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

  love.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JosephMalik

  Passover (sacrificed lamb) was prepared/eaten,

  donuthole,

  Of course, the lamb was never eaten on the 14th. It was the sacrifice always eaten on the 15th the 1st day of Unleavened bread. Our Lord ate this same sacrifice that represented Him before He died as a matter of this Law. The same goes for the Unleavened bread itself and eating it on the 14th would be against the Law. Eating it at anytime during the festival in an unclean condition would also be against the Law. It was a sacred ingredient of the feast that was named after it. Of course the name changed from Unfermented bread to Passover later in OT texts and was called both ways in NT texts. The scriptures were getting us ready for its fulfillment. We can also say that the third cup of the four cups of wine consumed during the meal or the cup of blessing which Paul identified in 1 Cor would be considered holy as well. Now the feast itself represented what? The time of our Lords passion. That was the greater time and purpose of it. Make sense? Why else would our Lord say: John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. Jesus knew what it meant and we should as well.

  Joseph
• 
  31

  Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

  by wobble in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

  i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

  love.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JosephMalik

  PSacramento,

  Well there is information all over the place here on JWD. And some have run with it but changed time like the WT does, since the did not seem to understand introductory remarks like having the meal on the 14th (but in the evening when the date changed to the 15th). Moses set the standard for how such things should be stated and they confuse me at times. Not easy to see at first but we should not make up things that change dates or days instead. Learning how to read a Jewish Calendar made if more visible to me. The two links provided here should be enough and I really expect everyone to do their own work and perhaps simply check their work against it so that what they teach does not come from me. You should be able to do better.

  Joseph
• 
  31

  Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

  by wobble in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

  i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

  love.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JosephMalik

  donuthole,

  Right and this was not something limited to Passover. The same could happen at other 7 day festivals as well during the year. When the first day of a 7 day festival could fall on any day of the week (as it is a variable) but just happens to be coincident with a weekly Sabbath or Saturday then the 7th day must of necessity fall on Friday making a great Sabbath at its end. Other combinations are also possible so we have to try them all and see which one fits the texts. This worked while the others did not. Even going back to the week before Passover and the trip our Lord made to it fit these facts. I tried to be careful with all this as it was so incredible and even seemingly impossible but it all fit. While all this was done over 30 years ago still no one seems to get it and I get criticized for it. All I can do is make it known and let the chips fall where they may. Study, you have no idea what still lies hidden in the texts.

  Joseph
• 
  31

  Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

  by wobble in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

  i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

  love.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JosephMalik

  donuthole,

  Because during Passover (a week long event) there was a Sabbath that Friday and a another Preparation day before this Friday. In fact this is the preparation day of Nisan 20 mentioned by John and not the one not even mentioned as preparation day, the time the Lambs were killed and prepared earlier that week on Nisan 14. Thursday was a day of Preparation for the unleavened bread that was made from new grain during Passover. This was also a requirement for the festival of weeks that always begins during Passover week or the Festival of Unleavened bread which it was also called. Passover and Pentecost are inseparably tied together because of this. As our Lord was before Pilate around the 12th hour or 12 noon our time on Wednesday discussing if Barrabas or Jesus should be set free and since Jesus was nailed up on the very next third hour afterward it had to be the third hour of the night and the date also changed from the Wed to the beginning of Thursday or 9PM which was their third hour of the night and a day of Preparation. Now the next afternoon after that was still Thursday and still a day of Preparation for the 7th day of Passover when it became dark and an earthquake took place. With Friday the 7th day of Passover a Sabbath and Saturday a Legal Sabbath we have a high or great Sabbath of 48 hours during that observance. Nothing really unusual about this and the Scriptures can refer to the Passovers in singular or plural depending on the context of their material which they did. English translations however tend to hide this from us. And some argue that the 1st an/or 7th Passover days are not real Sabbaths since the work of preparing food could be done on the, but in fact they were more important than weekly Sabbaths and would override the Law on doing such work on them. The Talmud agrees. Does all this sound strange? How could so many denominations get it wrong? Well I did not write the scriptures and anyone that really wants to know can read them for themselves. As for the Watchtower and its teachings. Run don't walk away from them and don't bother to look back. More information in Beyond Watchtower doctrine which downloads with the book at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/btwbook.html

  Joseph
• 
  31

  Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

  by wobble in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

  i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

  love.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  JosephMalik

  Wobble,

  The date the time and who was present are just some of the things they got wrong. And there is more that I did not cover in that discussion. But you can see some of the evidence simply by reading the accounts given in scripture place side by side. http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/ch9notes.txt

  I know that this is only about Jesus our Savior and His ordeal to redeem us so there does not seem to be any effort by the Watchtower Jehovists to get it right or understand it properly since it would disturb the flock. And they may discover that their trumpet was playing a sour note all this time and/or their channel from God was snowy and faded out but I cared and wanted to know what happened to my savior. And then many have different views on it so their is lots of noise out there on the subject. And this is a topic that effects most all denominations and not just the Watchtower so they have a stake in it as well since their views differ from scripture and depend on scholars who did not know the correct answer either. None of them seem to realize that the Passover meal is always a Sabbath and the next afternoon in still Sabbath. Or that the bread was a sacred ingredient of that meal? Go figure.

  Joseph
• 
  14

  I don't get this! Does anyone?

  by wannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i thought that jehovah had his worshippers on this earth today!.

  why does the prophecy of zephania make it look there'll be no survivors ar armageddon?

  doesn't that sound very strange to anyone?

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  JosephMalik

  Wannabee,

  That is right. There will be no survivors when this end comes. Everyone must die. No one can walk into this Kingdom with their present mortal bodies and achieve some so called perfection as the WT teaches. This has been clearly taught in scripture as some have brought out here. And that is why the Apostle Paul said; 1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. So what does this mean? It means that everyone that is chosen to be a part of this Kingdom (something that only Christ will do) must either be resurrected or changed. Christian or not, good or bad, Time will be rolled back and only those selected by Him will be part of it. Only the condemned who are not found in the book of life will not be found in it. This is why the Apostle Paul also went on to say: 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? Incorruption, immortality, that is the kind of human beings those chosen by our Lord will be at that time. Is this the good news of the Kingdom that the WT has been teaching? No! For as I have said many times on this forum, the WT has never taught the good news of the Kingdom as claimed since they do not know what it is.

  Joseph