Posts by JosephMalik

4

Flesh with its soul its blood YOU must not eat

by Doug Mason in

flesh with its soul its blood you must not eat (genesis 9:4, nwt).. .

these words are part of gods covenant with noah, which runs from genesis 9:1-17.. .

no doubt, when you have read this passage, you wondered why god (el) made this covenant, and not yhwh (yahweh / jehovah).. .

JosephMalik

This is part of Scripture’s consistent message that the word “blood” means “death”. (In a medical procedure, “blood” never symbolises the death of its previous owner. And the donor’s flesh is not eaten.)

Doug,

But then there was a change in scripture. The Law upon which all this was based would no longer be valid and any prohibition against blood made in times past was now changed by our Lord to include it since it would now be an essential ingredient, even a mandatory one for our salvation. John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Any blood prohibition made in times past would now be allowed. Such a statement could not be made for any reason unless such prohibitions were brought to an end. The cup we drink means his blood, not just some supposed symbolic reference to it. We would not think of it as wine anymore but as blood when it was consumed. The use of wine was simply a way to do this since the man giving this command would not have enough blood for the whole world to eventually drink anyway.

Mt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

The use of blood to save life was now allowed and scriptural. This one reason does not exclude it for being used for medical purposes as well since permission to use it was granted to mankind. And it is nothing more than an organ transplant when given anyway. But then a problem developed that would not be solved for a long time. James wrote a letter that he gave to Paul for distribution and h is stipulation looked quite innocent on the surface. It contained deeply ingrained matters of contention of little concern to Gentiles. You will notice however that it was directly associated with Moses and the Law, dealt with blood and was intended ONLY for Gentiles. One doctrine for Gentiles and another doctrine for Jews was the result. It contradicted out Lord's teaching regarding the use of blood and directly impacted on their salvation. Some have attempted to apply this requirement to the pre-law writings of Moses as if this makes some kind of difference but that no longer matteres. And we know from Scripture that James was concerned with the Law itself and continued to observe and teach it in Jerusalem. He tried to force Paul to submit to it as well (Acts 21:24). So by mixing in some good with the bad many have taken this letter as doctrinal when in reality it was an error brought out in scripture that would take 40 or more years to correct by Paul and some have still not corrected it.

Joseph

20

Help Please- Gods prophets in Bible made mistakes like GB?

by AwSnap in

i have a family member coming over tomorrow to discuss this.

it was actually brought up a long time ago, but i forgot about it.

he told me 2 days ago that he found some information that he'd researched.

JosephMalik

It does not matter what anyone else has done. It only matters what you have done. And if you are a disciple of Christ then your obligation is to keep his commandments and not the commandments of someone else no matter how connected to God they pretend to be. It is explained like this:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

Because when push comes to shove, they cannot forgive your sins, cure your sickness or raise you from the dead. Only the Son can do that.

Mt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Joseph

4

Addition to Who really is the Faithful Slave?

by wannabe in

"{john 8:27-29 niv}.

12 i did not receive it from any man, nor was i taught it; rather, i received it by revelation from jesus christ.

"{john 14:16,17 niv}.

JosephMalik

mindmedia,

Just run your pointer (cursor) over the pink with your finger on the left mouse button and it should turn blue with white letters. You can read it then but what for?

Joseph

7

Who really is the Faithful Slave?

by wannabe in

who really is the faithful slave?.

not so long ago i had a conversation with one of the witnesses at my door, and i drew his attention to the fact that nowhere in matthew 24 - mark13 - luke 21 did jesus mention any appointed organization on the earth, when he gave the sign of his coming.

i pointed out to him that all jesus foretold was the prevalence of many false prophets.

JosephMalik

Wannabe,

I was responding to your comment that Jesus was the Faithful slave in that prophecy. But: "evil type Slave class" is not found in scripture. Judgment is on an individual basis not by class.

Joseph

7

Who really is the Faithful Slave?

by wannabe in

who really is the faithful slave?.

not so long ago i had a conversation with one of the witnesses at my door, and i drew his attention to the fact that nowhere in matthew 24 - mark13 - luke 21 did jesus mention any appointed organization on the earth, when he gave the sign of his coming.

i pointed out to him that all jesus foretold was the prevalence of many false prophets.

JosephMalik

The first thing I noticed, is, if you begin with the idea the Master is the Christ you'll right away be thrown off track; which I think is what the witnesses do.

Wannabe,

Taking a look at the entire parable wannabe what did I find:

Matt 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Now would the Father ever say that this Jesus was an evil servant? Would Jesus ever say my master delayed his coming? Or would the Lord of that servant Jesus cut him asunder and appoint him with the hypocrites? There is a bit longer version of this in Luke given in response to Peter‘s question. 41 Peter asked," (Lord," as you telling this parable to us," or ‘to everyone”

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Division, rejection that is what the master tells us will take place in the masters household. The comments already given stay the same. Now who is the master that is coming? Who will have all authority at that time? Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So I have no problem with looking at this verse with Christ in charge as some teach. I would not jump around to other verses not given in the same context to come to another conclusion. The best way to deal with such verses is to stay with them for the answer. Of course the Father is over all but we are only dealing with the human part that is this particular masters mission and the one who commanded us and appointed us to go teach all nations. Such a command then makes us His slaves.

Who then is this Faithful slave? Truthfully we do not know because only the master can answer that question when he comes and this has not happened yet. But who should be the Faithful slave, provided that this slave is really faithful? Well it should be us as disciples following His commandments. But as stated in Luke: 47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Just saying we are disciples is not enough. We can be beaten with many stripes and thrown out with the hypocrites. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. Or we can be shown mercy and accepted into the kingdom to correct all this then. But to the ones that are truly faithful: 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. You see the slave consists of individuals not denominations. And they are not judged as a group but individually based upon what they know and did before their resurrection by this master

Joseph

1

More on the Appointed Times of the Nations!

by wannabe in

more on the appointed times of the nations!.

the book: "you can live forever in paradise on earth," published by the governing body of the watchtower society on page 141 paragraph 20 we are told, in part: ..."the appointed times of the nations began in the year 607 bce.

" on page 139 of this same publication in paragraph 16 this further statement is made, concerning the event with which, they say started this count of time: "this happened in the year 607 bce.

JosephMalik

One final point that will conclusively show that Jesus could not have been speaking about earthly Jerusalem, when he said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Nations until the appointed times of the Nations are fulfilled."

Wannabe,

Wow! You know I kind of started out like that, wanting to say everything all at once. And you have some very good points. Not that after reading it through only once can I say that I understand all of them, but no matter at this point since the track you are on is a good. Going all the way back to the garden of Eden and the prophecy stated there also demonstrated when such a conflict began. That is the root prophecy upon which everything else rests and we should have our feet firmly planted in it. Now the quote you gave as shown above is also one that I agree with. Everyone seems to think that the Roman armies fulfilled this verse in Luke because it seemed that way historically. But our Lord did not come then as this prophecy promised and it was not a reason for us to be in on the watch for Him. A literal interpretation would make Him a false prophet. That event was simply another war that the abandoned Jews got themselves mixed up in. It was not part of any sign of His presence and of the end of the world. If it were to be understood literally like most do then our Lord's advice to flee to the mountains would also turn out to be bad advice since that did not save any Jews that tried. Nor would any other mountain help them escape. You would have to get out of the country entirely if you were seeking refuge.

So how did I work this problem over thirty years ago and see information like that? Easy! I simply put that prophecy in Luke side by side with its equivalent in Matt and Mark. And in doing that I could see that I needed to include Daniel chapter 12 as well since it was talking about this same time and matched the references made in Daniel with Matt and Mark and the brief interval involved as well. The wording of Luke did not match the wording of Matt, Mark or Daniel very well and most take it as a stand alone statement but the time period under discussion and its purpose did match all four writers. What our Lord said as shown by Luke and what He meant as shown by Matt and Mark and Daniel was brought out by Matt and Mark so that Jews would not fall into the same trap that literal interpretation would set for them. And since our Lord did explain things to them, they could restate the prophecy specifically for Jews. The Gentiles did not need this interpretation and could see how things would unfold historically at the time of its literal fulfillment far in the future. At that time the words, these prophecies all taken together would make perfect sense. That is how I did it. And of course the many things you have shown already would be much easier to see. So thanks and keep up the good work.

Joseph

9

Proper view of the appointed times of the Nations! Addition

by wannabe in

with addition!.

most today reading luke 21:24 draw the conclusion that ancient jerusalem is in question here.

how can it be that heavenly new jerusalem is now called the throne of jehovah?

JosephMalik

Wannabe,

I was not trying to be critical of your view but was just showing how error even if trusted of believed by a majority can effect our thinking. Raking out Watchtower Trash is not always a simple matter and we have to look at every word and phrase, even simple ones. Major doctrinal error is often pushed by simple statements or word comparisons forming theories that most would not give a second thought. So keep up the good work and take care that you can support your statements before offering them to others. Working together we can get this job done.

Joseph

P.S. Your statement: Now we're dealing with spiritual Israel, The Israel of God.

Yes, that is the way I see it as well. Even calling this Israel of God as Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies works for me. That is another way or giving the faith a name and place in the world that Jews would recognize. I however put it much later in time to what Titus did to the unfaithful Jews that were abandoned and on their own.

JM

9

Proper view of the appointed times of the Nations! Addition

by wannabe in

with addition!.

most today reading luke 21:24 draw the conclusion that ancient jerusalem is in question here.

how can it be that heavenly new jerusalem is now called the throne of jehovah?

JosephMalik

We see, that the Throne of Jehovah isn't occupied now solely by Jehovah alone, but has the Christ and his 144,000 associate King Priests seated right there with him. So, misuse any of the anointed Brothers of Christ while they walked this earth, constituted trampling on the Throne of Jehovah. Jesus nicely highlighted that point at Matthew 25:40,45}

Wannabe,

This is something that I would like for you to take a good look at. What should you find? You should find that the 144000 do not rule as Kings. What! Why do I say that the 144000 do not rule with Christ. Because they are chosen our of the 12 tribes of Israel (whoever they are at that time by the 24 elders and the four beasts) but they are not the ones ruling. It is the 24 elders and the four beasts that do the ruling notice:

Re 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. (10 And hast formed them into a Kingdom to be priests to our God, And they reign over the earth." WEY) *****************************************

Another view of the 24 elders: Re 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Now the 24 elders and the four beasts who have the harps do a lot of singing and the playing and they do it to the 12 tribes from which 144000 who manage to understand and master their song are selected. Now because they mastered it they can now sing along with them. The rest of the men of 12 tribes however did not. We get a vision of that here:

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

I could not fine anywhere the 144000 rule as Kings in the Revelation but perhaps I missed something. I asked this question to some buy they could not answer. Maybe someone else can.

When all this happens in time in this Kingdom is a problem we must solve, be it before, during or after the final test but the question of who rules and why is less difficult. And Elders and visionaries like the wild beasts have the real authority not the 144000 or flocks they serve, even in churches today.

Joseph

4

A Proper view of the appointed times of the Nations!

by wannabe in

a proper view of the appointed times of the nations!.

most today reading luke 21:24 draw the conclusion that ancient jerusalem is in question here.

of course that's a natural conclusion to draw, because it looks like jerusalem of old is in question, however this subject needs to be examined a little closer; because jerusalem of old is not in question here at all.. 24"and they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive into all the nations; and jerusalem shall be trodden down of [the] nations until [the] times of [the] nations be fulfilled.

JosephMalik

Wannabe,

Good Job. Very good job indeed. I have struggled with these verses as well and came to similar conclusions with very little differences.

Joseph

18

Jesus is Not Michael

by JosephMalik in

you all know that i argued this the other way and could not get good answers to daniel chapter 12. but if you see michael as performing a function much like john the baptist did and how the jews believed that elijah must come first then michael's function of standing in advance of the return of our lord for a short time prior to the resurrection of the dead makes perfect sense.

and it also gives a slightly different meaning to the words: " and what shall be the sign of thy coming, (events that take place after the standing up of michael) and of the end of the world?

" (christs return or presence.

JosephMalik

Undisfellowshipped,

Thank you sir for that kindness. I do not think that many on here realize that I am not trying to push forth doctrine but am simply putting what I was taught by others or was able to grasp on my own through the ringer to see if it will stand up. Sometimes I foul up, even after years of discussion before this realization becomes apparent. No matter what the teaching is, I want it to be in harmony with our lord and let the chips fall where they may. Yes I may bang heads at times to see if such thoughts stand up, but when I am able to see where the flaws are then as shown here a correction and apology is made so that others are not influenced by what was offered in the past.

Joseph