JosephMalik

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Posts by JosephMalik

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  37

  The word, "Jehovah"

  by Dia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  i just read that the name, 'jehovah' was created 700 years ago by a catholic monk who took the vowels from the word, 'lord' and combined them with the letters yhwh (the unpronounceable, biblical term for god).. anyone ever heard this or know a credible source for this info?.

  now here's potentially something to share with your next visiting jw!.

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  JosephMalik

  bchamber,

  That was good bchamber. Perhaps it will help some to think instead of being so picky on something they cannot resolve.

  Joseph
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  55

  Most JW women are adulterers

  by Faraon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1 corinthians 11:3

  but i would have you know, that the head of every man is christ; and the head

  of the woman is the man

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  JosephMalik

  Joseph,

  Paul certainly was replying to some doubts from Corinth, but it was not "word for word" as you claimed. Note that in the same verse (1Cor. 11:3) that refers to the headship of man over woman, he claims that it is from his own words that the head of the woman is the man. This is demonstrated by the use of " But I would have you know ". Did this come from the Corinthians?

  Faraon,

  The I is part of the quote yes. So the I is the Corinthian that dictated that part of the letter. Now Paul did not always quote word for word as he did here, sometimes he included their views in his response in various other ways, but the point is that most of 1 Cor deals with their letter in one form or another. And since he could not read well or write well for that matter because of his poor vision, such letters would be read to him even as he indictated in the place I mentioned earlier. Paul used men like Luke to write for him.

  Faraon, said: Maybe it would be of interest to you what I found in the following concerning 1Corinthians 11 at http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/smcdownlds/GdWdActs.html

  From the Steve McRoberts' site http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/Smcroberts/index.html

  1Cor:11:1: Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

  Once again Paul asked his readers to be his followers in the same way that Paul was a follower of Christ! No wonder they were saying, "I am of Paul"! But, as has been repeatedly pointed out, Paul was not a very good follower of Christ; he often contradicted Christs teachings.

  Paul did not contradict Christs teachings. In fact Paul was selected as the 12 th apostle while still a persecutor of Christians because there were no immediate disciples around that would stand up for such truth. This is because they all followed the Law as a requirement for salvation along with James at that time. But our Lord picked Paul because he knew that Paul would fight them all on this very matter. And this he did indeed. Take another look at verse 1. It does not agree with the very verse before it that states:

  33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

  So is Paul teaching that he does not seek mine own profit or is he saying Be ye followers of me? Verse 1 and 2 represent the teachings of James which were the same views as the author of the letter sent to Paul. James is the one that was spreading such teachings throughout Pauls territories and he is the one that Paul fought against on several occasions. Here you have the beginning of the quote that Paul would refute. Yes all you have is a repetition of the doctrine that James and Jewish Christians that followed him taught against which Paul constantly fought. And how did he do this?

  By ripping them up with his response on women after which he went on to say:

  17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

  There you have it Faraon. Not a very nice picture of the faith at that time is it. But if you follow this letter carefully and partition it just like we are doing here on the web you can see how the opposite of what you are saying is being taught. The hierarchy you describe existed with the Corinthians not with Paul. He exposed them, he berated them and he would send people there to deal with this problem. This is precisely the reason why Paul instituted the Elder arrangement in his territories. The rest of the apostles did not do any such thing but Paul did this alone because he found it necessary to keep such men (mostly Jewish Christians under James control) from destroying the faith in its early years. And this is why James finally wrote his letter to correct this same problem he caused. The book of Hebrews made the difference with James and such Jews everywhere and some came around as a result.

  Faraon, said: 1Cor:11:3: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

  Paul was describing a hierarchy with God at the top, and women at the bottom . These are not equal relationships. Therefore, God and Jesus are not equal (and therefore the doctrine of the Trinity cannot be true).

  The verses are also useless proving an hierarchy or in disproving a trinity since they are supporting Judaism and the Law Covenant along with a suppression of women all of which is not supported by the Churches of God. The Apostle Paul did not support such comments and neither should we. I did not bother with the rest of your post as it was already covered for the most part in earlier posts.

  Joseph
• 
  37

  The word, "Jehovah"

  by Dia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  .

  i just read that the name, 'jehovah' was created 700 years ago by a catholic monk who took the vowels from the word, 'lord' and combined them with the letters yhwh (the unpronounceable, biblical term for god).. anyone ever heard this or know a credible source for this info?.

  now here's potentially something to share with your next visiting jw!.

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  JosephMalik

  Dia,

  As a transliteration the argument rages and has no end. But if you take it as a translation then the pronunciation and/or spelling does not matter. It simply represents the Hebrew word it translates. Nowhere do we find that mispronunciation of this word is a sin and proper names can be pronounced with considerable variability and still recognized by their owner. Mine is all the time with no problem. All this arguing is a lot about nothing.

  It is the Watchtowers insistence that it is a correct and proper way to pronounce it that is the real problem. Taken that way the arguments are of course valid and will continue to no end.

  Joseph

  
  
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  16

  Is The World On Notice Due to WTBS?

  by Dismembered in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what is anyones opinion.

  do you think the world has been put on notice with the flymsy pages of the watchtower & awake magazines, and the door to door ministry?

  dismembered but not dismemberededited by - dismembered on 18 august 2002 9:1:53.

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  JosephMalik

  No! They do not even know what the "Good News" is and have never taught the truth regarding it to anyone. All they have is a severe distortion of scripture always changing and always wrong. The few things they do know are of no consequence.

  Joseph
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  1

  The List

  by WildTurkey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anyone have a copy of tallyman's the list?

  i really would like to get it.

  1. 
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  JosephMalik

  LIST OF PROPHESIES, PREDICTIONS AND CLAIMS MADE BY THE OFFICIAL ORGANISATION OF ++ jEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ++ by Persons Unknown.

  Go to my web site and click on the link shown above.

  http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/

  Joseph
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  55

  Most JW women are adulterers

  by Faraon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1 corinthians 11:3

  but i would have you know, that the head of every man is christ; and the head

  of the woman is the man

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  JosephMalik

  Faraon writes:

  First of all, what you are saying is about chapter eight. My quotes were from Chapter 11 (Bankruptcy for women)

  Faraon,

  Chapter 8 is not the end of Paul's rebuttal to them by any means. You asked me for proof and I provided it even as I provided it for chapter 11. Here is another example in chapter 11:

  18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

  Paul knew what they were doing in detail as if someone was reading their letter to him. He knew details that could not be learned otherwise. But it is chapter 15 where this source of information really matters. Their views on what happens at the resurrection were so outrageous that Paul spent considerable time correcting it. He even accused some for not having knowledge of God.

  34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

  Their letter was the source for all this and we see that he continued using it in chapter 15. There are more examples but this is enough to make the point. Paul supported women in the faith as shown even as our Lord did. And Paul appointed men like Timothy and Barnabas to appoint Elders that were not contaminated with such philosophy. That was the very reason for it in the first place.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 19 August 2002 0:2:37
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  55

  Most JW women are adulterers

  by Faraon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1 corinthians 11:3

  but i would have you know, that the head of every man is christ; and the head

  of the woman is the man

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  JosephMalik

  Joseph,

  I do not know what apologists have been telling you, but nowhere does it say that that this is an word for word quote and and answer to a letter written to him by the Corinthians.

  Faraon,

  Then you should be more careful. Here is the reference to it:

  1 Cor. 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

  And here is what some apologists are saying taken from Matthew Henries Commentary:

  INTRODUCTION TO 1 CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 8

  The apostle, in this chapter, answers another case proposed to him by some of the Corinthians, about eating those things that had been sacrificed to idols.

  I. He hints at the occasion of this case, and gives a caution against too high an esteem of their knowledge, #1Co 8:1-3. end of quote.

  And so it went all the way to the end of 1 Corinthians.

  If you did not know this, then you cannot grasp the context of this letter some of which I have already demonstrated. Joseph
• 
  55

  Most JW women are adulterers

  by Faraon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1 corinthians 11:3

  but i would have you know, that the head of every man is christ; and the head

  of the woman is the man

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  JosephMalik

  1 Corinthians 11:3 ,
  But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man ; and the head of Christ is God.

  Faraon,

  This is not a truth. It is a Corinthian doctrine quoted word for word from the letter they sent to Paul which he then refuted like this:

  11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

  The churches of God have no such custom. That is the answer to this custom which we call doctrine today. And it still is a Watchtower doctrine because they are ignorant of scripture and believe the lies and customs of the Corinthians over that of Paul and the churches of God.

  Ephesians 5 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
  24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

  This is another example of the same problem but with the Ephesians this time. Paul refuted their views, doctrine or mystery as he called their views by responding to it and canceling out their mystery like this:

  32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. 1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;) 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. 4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. 5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: 8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. 9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him. 10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; 19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

  So Paul put down this Ephesian doctrine, view or mystery and replaced it with this view which was also in agreement with the churches of God and the gospel. It does not surprise me that the Watchtower agrees with the Ephesians and not with Paul or the gospel on this matter.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 18 August 2002 16:0:0
• 
  48

  Tiring of Anti-JW causes?

  by ashitaka in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm kind of burnt out from being pissed off at jws.

  tonight, while talking to a friend who left at the same time i did (several years ago), we both spoke of our apathy towards the whole anti-witness movement.

  recently i helped in several anti-jw actions, and i thought i made a difference, although it was a pittens compared to others who have come before.

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  JosephMalik

  ashitaka,

  No, helping others is what a disciple does. It makes no difference if they are JW's or someone else, the problem is much the same. Set an example and teach them if possible so as to establish the faith in others. This is how the message is carried to the world. And in the case of the JW's who seem to need help more than others? We put in more effort here because we are better qualified to deal with them.

  ashitaka said: Perhaps unqualified people like myself shouldn't try to help people 'coming out' anyway.

  Then take the time to learn first. There is plenty of material available on the net to bring you up to speed if that is your problem.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 18 August 2002 9:52:50
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  32

  why do people think jesus died on a cross?

  by watermelon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have always wonderd why so many people think jesus died on a cross.

  ive been brought up to beleive that he died on a stake.

  where did it come from about the cross?

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  JosephMalik

  Earnest,

  Is a tree lying on the ground horizontally still a tree? There is nothing wrong with the translation as it does not go into such detail. Such verses are not discussing the configuration of this tree but simply describe the material used. The Watchtower does not want you to consider this possibility but at least you know it was not a masonry wall or something of that sort by such verses. Besides the timber our Lord carried could have been attatched to an existing and still living tree.

  The problem then is the lie or lies being told and the fact that everyone must teach them or else. And when you look further the Watchtower does not even know the date on which our Lord really died and seem totally ignorant about the 7 days of Passover itself. They keep forcing His death to coincide with the death of the Lambs which is really stupid since our Lord ate this very same Passover Lamb with His disciples after such Lambs were killed. So the lies, the ignorance, the lack of repentance on the part of this organization and its cruelty is the real problem. Get out of her should be the cry of all that care for honesty and truth.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 17 August 2002 9:35:34