Posts by JosephMalik

88

Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?

by compound complex in

greetings, friends:.

a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.

the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.

JosephMalik

FACT: The author of 2nd Timothy references "Jannes and Jambres" in 2nd Timothy 3:8. These two characters are not found anywhere in the Old Testament. They are found in the apocryphal Book of Jannes and Jambres. The writer then goes on to state that, "All scripture is inspired of God..."

CONCLUSION: The fact that 'Paul' referenced an apocryphal book and then declared that all scripture is inspired raises questions as to what 'Paul' believed to be scripture.

Cyrus the Persian,

Did you know that I can read? My eyes are in poor shape but I am still managing. And the scriptures you are using here teach the opposite of what you are saying or concluding. But then you should see what I can still see and it is: 2 Tim 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. Wow, Jannes and Jambres were bad and are being excluded not included to this audience. Timothy would not appoint anyone supporting them the way you do as overseers. And their existence and writings would not be included in the all scriptures are inspired comment made much further down the text. The best that can be made of this is if someone thought their work was scripture but simply hidden from view, then they would not think that anymore. It sounds more like the verses were targeted against men doing what you are doing and not supporting the writings of Jannes and Jambres. We find wrong conclusions everywhere regarding such simple material and much worse on the more difficult texts. Wrong conclusions by theologians abound everywhere on everything. And yet the truth can be found by the simplest of people without much difficulty. What a strange book this Bible is. How many other books are like this? In fact this truth could have been derived long ago by people using the KJV despite all of its shortcomings.

Joseph

88

Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?

by compound complex in

greetings, friends:.

a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.

the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.

JosephMalik

Now that's not very nice...

CyrusthePersian,

It was not meant to be nice, just salty. What you were doing was not very nice. Trying to destroy the faith of others is not nice. And this is made worse when your assumptions are wrong.

Joseph

88

Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?

by compound complex in

greetings, friends:.

a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.

the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.

JosephMalik

"no prophecy ever came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke, being moved by the Holy Spirit"

Leolaia,

Sure and this is why they kept such Apocrypha apart from what they considered the sacred texts. But this does not mean that they considered the entire scroll as inspired. They did consider them useful since they also contained good information that could be called prophecy. Why? Because the writers were moved by the Holy Spirit. And what does that mean? Well the sacred texts of course like the book of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms, this is the Holy Spirit from which such writers were deriving their thoughts. Words like Holy Spirit do not imply miraculous intervention and nothing else. To use a word such as Prophesied and force it to mean total inspiration of a scroll from which just a few words may have been applied cannot be supported. It was Jude that determined what was right in it and what should be kept hidden not Enoch. The same thing goes on here on the net. The reader will have to judge for themselves what is inspired prophecy and what is not.

Joseph

88

Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?

by compound complex in

greetings, friends:.

a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.

the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.

JosephMalik

Whether the charge was true or false is not the point. The point is that just saying a few wrong words to the wrong people at the wrong time could get you killed back then, which is why (getting back to the main point) it's unthinkable that Jude would would refer to !st Enoch as a prophesy if he didn't believe it was inspired.

Cyrus the Persian,

Saying the wrong words to the wrong people is the very point indeed. It was not blasphemy that caused the problem, it was the mind set of the people involved. Others did it and were not killed as Jesus himself stated. You have no argument here. We are talking about blasphemy not the assumption of blasphemy. Your assumption that using this word prophecied forces Enoch's message to be inspired scripture is false. And you have the same mindset these people had, that Jude should be killed if understood otherwise. It is a mindset just like the one that killed Jesus.

Joseph

88

Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?

by compound complex in

greetings, friends:.

a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.

the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.

JosephMalik

For some reason, the Sanhedrin and the chief priests in the book of Matthew, as well as secular historians of that time (and the apostle Paul, who doesn't mention any of Jesus' miracles) seem singularly unimpressed with Jesus' miraculous feats. Could it be that they never happened? Can you prove that they did?

Cyrus the Persian,

Can you prove that they did not? This is the past, things happened and not everyone knew of them just like now. Not every detail was recorded. And it was not unusual to ignore material already covered adequately in other texts. No one is asking you to believe it. Get lost if you do not like it. But no, you want to influence someone else as if you knew better. But in reality you know nothing about such past history and just want to argue.

Joseph

28

John 19:14, a devastating contradiction?

by DT in

matthew, mark and luke claim that jesus died on passover (nisan 14) john, however, claims that jesus died on the day of preparation for passover (nisan 13) "now it was preparation of the passover" -john 19:14 nwt (it helps to read the context, several verses before and after.

) john also doesn't mention the lord's evening meal with his his apostles on passover.

it would have been impossible, because he was already dead, according to john.. the bible contains many contradictions that can possibly be reconciled if you have enough imagination, but this contradiction seems pretty blatant.

JosephMalik

He was not held in custody for six days during the passover! That goes against the time he Partook! So Bull!

Sarah Smiles,

Nice shot but the only Bull involved may be a can containing some alcohol. Oh, tasty too. I prefer Rebel Yell but Budweiser and some others will do. And yes, Red Bull is nice sometimes.

You said: Why would you ever want to think they held him for six day is only in you own thinking. I have never read any theology agree with you! I think you should know better as far as teaching something that goes completely against the bible!

Because I took the time to study this event and know better. The rest are just blowing smoke up your nose? just like the WT. The Bible agrees with what I am saying. Perhaps now you will have a reason to really study it for yourself. Those noted scholars out there could not figure it out and there is still plenty of hidden material in that book to discover. Look at the way they fabricated a Governing body for what was really an apostate group. Look at the way they abuse Paul’s writings which supported women for their view which abuses them. Look at the way they take a false teaching which was used to nearly kill Paul to support their blood transfusion policies. Look at how they preach that Christ will not return in the flesh as an immortal human being which John calls Antichrist. And it goes on an on like this. You know the trinity, hell fire and immortal soul is screwed up and theologians support it. Forget about them and study it for yourself.

Joseph

28

John 19:14, a devastating contradiction?

by DT in

matthew, mark and luke claim that jesus died on passover (nisan 14) john, however, claims that jesus died on the day of preparation for passover (nisan 13) "now it was preparation of the passover" -john 19:14 nwt (it helps to read the context, several verses before and after.

) john also doesn't mention the lord's evening meal with his his apostles on passover.

it would have been impossible, because he was already dead, according to john.. the bible contains many contradictions that can possibly be reconciled if you have enough imagination, but this contradiction seems pretty blatant.

JosephMalik

doesn't it seem strange to anyone but me that Jesus celebrates the passover meal with his disciples-when HE was the passover sacrifice? He is the 'passover lamb' but he is eating the meal with his disciples? Shouldn't the passover meal happen AFTER his death? Just some thoughts:)

JWDaughter,

Jesus is the human Passover Lamb that was depicted by the animals sacrificed. But nowhere does it teach the Jesus must die at the same time as these non-human Lambs. After all these Lambs were killed BEFORE Passover and in preparation for it and not during it. Jesus was killed during Passover which was a week long or seven days. Even the preparation day on which He died was still DURING this Passover and not apart from it. Yes, Jesus ate this Passover Lamb that depicted His own sacrifice some six days later. And this meal is ALWAYS on a Sabbath and in fact starts the calendar running for the seven day Passover week. It is impossible for Jesus to suffer and die by the next afternoon as this was still the first Sabbath day of Passover. It was the Law that determined this not WT musings. But this does show that they know NOTHING about this historic event and corrupt it just like they do the rest of the scriptures in their printed material. It is out there for the world to see. Did anyone notice?

Joseph

88

Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?

by compound complex in

greetings, friends:.

a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.

the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.

JosephMalik

Jesus Christ himself was sentenced to death for the "crime" of blasphemy! -Matt.26:64-68.

CyrusthePersian,

Get it right for a change. It was a false charge of blasphemy which is not the same thing.

Jesus was not wrong, they were wrong and the crime was theirs. When they would blaspheme it was alright which just shows the twisted thinking they had. Still no proof just ramblings.

Joseph

28

John 19:14, a devastating contradiction?

by DT in

matthew, mark and luke claim that jesus died on passover (nisan 14) john, however, claims that jesus died on the day of preparation for passover (nisan 13) "now it was preparation of the passover" -john 19:14 nwt (it helps to read the context, several verses before and after.

) john also doesn't mention the lord's evening meal with his his apostles on passover.

it would have been impossible, because he was already dead, according to john.. the bible contains many contradictions that can possibly be reconciled if you have enough imagination, but this contradiction seems pretty blatant.

JosephMalik

A Seeming Discrepancy. Some have pointed to what appears to be a discrepancy between the statement at Mark 15:25, which says Jesus was impaled at "the third hour," and that at John 19:14, which indicates that by "about the sixth hour" Jesus’ final trial before Pilate was just ending. John had access to Mark’s account, and he certainly could have repeated the time stated by Mark. Therefore John must have had a reason for stating the hour differently from Mark.

Blues Brothers,

There you see. They cannot think. And millions follow them. It is amazing the hoops they jump through as a result of their ignorance. Anyone reading John could see that he interleaved his Gospel with the others. He did not use a different clock. He did not bother to repeat things already covered adequately like the meal itself which he jumped over (which means he knew what the others said) or such clock times but he did cover the arguments they had and the foot washing that happened afterward since this was missing in the others. And it is a simple matter to calculate the third hour after the sixth hour. After all their always is a third hour after the sixth hour but it is the third hour of the night which is around 9PM our time. If you follow along or know what is going on there is no need to say night. This would be easily known by following the other Gospels stories as John was doing. But of course this is too much for their anointed super governing body class of experts filled with the spirit(s) to figure out. Now where we do not have such good references to time the scriptures will fill out the time like this: Ac 23:23 And he called unto him two centurions, saying, Make ready two hundred soldiers to go to Caesarea, and horsemen threescore and ten, and spearmen two hundred, at the third hour of the night; There you go, proof that this was easy to figure out and this is the way they told time. And it was already preparation day since days started in the evening. Takes seconds to work the problem. But what does this mean? That our Lord was nailed up at night and spent some 18 hours hanging before his death. Nothing unusual about that either. The story does not pick up again until the next daylight period around noon but still a day of preparation. Now in a few more hours our Lord would die and a high sabbath would follow. This high sabbath was 48 hours long since the Passover sabbath's seventh day or Friday was followed by a Sabbath day or Saturday. This also means that everything else they are teaching about that festival is dreamed up just like this example you provided was. Truth is stranger than fiction. It is way past time to start thinking for yourself.

Joseph

32

Romans 8

by confused and lost in

i have just finished reading the book of romans and i have a question ?

a person cannot please god unless he is controlled by the spirit.

(rom 8:8,9) nor can he put to death the misdeeds of the body except by the spirit (rom 8:13) the next verse (v14) then tells us that all who are led by gods spirit are gods sons.in fact they are adopted as his children.however,according to the wts , these verses only apply to the annointed.so,my question is this.if only the annointed are led by gods spirit,whose spirit leads the "other sheep" ?

JosephMalik

Doug Mason,

This was considered already and it is now up to other readers to make up their own mind. They see your views and they see mine. This should be a good exercise for them.

Joseph