i'm going somewhere with this, so all i need is the scriptural basis for the answer.. i'll be back later this evening.. .
nmg.
.
atypical,
You will notice that the question is not scripture and does not reflect what such texts really taught. How is it that we can be spiced into the olive tree of Israel since we are not of its blood line. You keep missing the point. Yes, there is a lot of misunderstanding out there so why are you supporting instead of correcting it?
Joseph
i'm going somewhere with this, so all i need is the scriptural basis for the answer.. i'll be back later this evening.. .
nmg.
.
atypical,
Why do you keep adding the word blood where it does not exist? The correct thinking is legal right. So the answer to your question is yes for all practical purposes. This is the way sinless life or blood as it became known was introduced. This is how all Israel will be saved. When we are restored to immortal human life then we will have the same Jewish Father and qualify for such salvation.
Joseph
i'm going somewhere with this, so all i need is the scriptural basis for the answer.. i'll be back later this evening.. .
nmg.
.
atypical,
Joseph claimed him as his own son. That gave him the legal right. The blood of Jesus was without sin. That did not come from Joseph or David did it? Yet it redeemed us all when sacrificed.
Joseph
i'm going somewhere with this, so all i need is the scriptural basis for the answer.. i'll be back later this evening.. .
nmg.
.
Matt 1:.24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
The chronologies recorded in scripture from both the man and woman established Jesus as rightful heir to the throne of David.. Matthew established the fact that Joseph agreed and gave his acceptance to this arrangement thus giving Jesus legal status to the throne. Luke added to this chronology by the women despite what others may have thought and included the whole human race. This gave Jesus the right to more than just David’s throne but the right and authority to redeem all mankind back to Adam and not just the Jews. Both chronologies also established the real humanity of Jesus, but such humanity would still produce a sinful human life. So John came along and appended further chronology to these two and said: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. So now we go back in time before Adam, before any of this chronology and learn how it came into existence. And now we learn the source of the life that made this Jesus different from than that of Adam being not only human but without sin. What this source was up to then was only known as the Holy Ghost but was now further identified as the Word, a sinless Being that was responsible for all humanity in the first place. It is this sinless life and its acceptance by both human parents that made the ransom of all of us possible.
Joseph
having been raised in the truth, i thought that i had all the answers in the watchtower publications.
but as i started really reading the bible without filters, a lot of stuff started to appear that made no sense to me.
1) genesis 2:2: and by the seventh day god came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made.. .
Why did all the "noble" men of the bible always end up doing something horrible in the eyes of God?
civicsi00,
You could ask: Why are Christian ministers and sholars today doing something horrible in the eyes of God? Why do they continue to teach false doctrine and not correct it? Why does the WTS keep lying about the Governing Body that it deceptively patterned from scripture? Why do people allow themselves to be mislead by such men? We can keep going on and on like this. But the real question that should be asked is what are we personally doing about it? Why do so many let fear and ignorance run their lives? What would be your answer to such questions?
Joseph
after jesus' death, mat.
27 : 52-53 reads : and the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.
let me first give cognac the credit for having raised this topic lately (i don't know what was written on jwd in the past on this subject).
Joseph, your comments are interesting, but inconsistent, both with what I wrote and with regard to Scripture. When the tombstone is rolled away from Jesus' tomb in Matthew 28:2, it does not describe it as "an aftershock" as you characterized it, but as a "severe earthquake." Where in the text did you deduce the theory that this was an aftershock?
Everastudent,
What difference does this make? When an earthquake takes place and another takes place a few days later that I called an aftershock does this change anything? No! The scriptures simply identify the event as earthquake. Today we call them aftershocks. And if you use WTS material and do not identify it as such who's fault is that? If it comes from you then it is your information not someone else's. You see that is the problem with following others. You cannot blame the error on them any more than Adam could blame it on his wife. We will be judged individually based on our deeds and not the deeds of others.
Joseph
after jesus' death, mat.
27 : 52-53 reads : and the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.
let me first give cognac the credit for having raised this topic lately (i don't know what was written on jwd in the past on this subject).
If Jesus was resurrected as an immortal human being and he didn't go to a place called "heaven", where do you believe he exists now? Just curious?
Choosing life,
I only discussed part of that happened, the part that applies to us. This answered and corrected your questions. In other posts I covered this in more detail. How was Jesus resurrected back to life? Like this: John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Was this human or non-human nature when this prayer was fulfilled? Non-human! But this non-human nature was not sacrificed for us. However as such a non-human once again Jesus could raise the dead body that was sacrificed for us with no problem. And it was an immortal human body we learned in Paul's letter to Timothy. When such human immortality took place is another story revealed in scripture. And taking this body back as God commanded to be done added another nature to this Jesus that God permitted Him to have. We learn this here: Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. This did not change history or the fact that this body was sacrificed and made available for further use in God's Kingdom. Where Jesus exists now we do not know. Someplace in the presence of God. How we do not know as either nature can be and was used at times. But when our Lord returns, it will be in His human nature. That we do know for sure. Regarding the scriptures of Paul. That was done by other posters trying to support their ideology. It is sad to think that organized religion has stooped so low, teaching lies and we put our trust and money in them. Trust in God. Believe in Jesus. Follow him and correct your own errors as you get to see things more clearly. Above all try and be the best human being you can be as that alone is enought to get you into the kingdom.
Joseph
after jesus' death, mat.
27 : 52-53 reads : and the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.
let me first give cognac the credit for having raised this topic lately (i don't know what was written on jwd in the past on this subject).
Jesus' resurrection was different because he was the first to be resurrected from human form to heaven as a spirit creature. That it the only way he could have been "first."
Why this event is not included elsewhere is puzzling. It would have been quite astonishing.
Choosing life,
Jesus body was taken back or resurrected as an immortal human being. This is what made Him first. Nowhere does the bible teach that we go to somewhere else in the universe called heaven when we are restored to life. That is a false doctrine also taught by many like the WTS. Immortality on earth is our hope in Christ as Jesus and Paul taught. That this earthquake involving dead bodies was a non-event that did not require elaboration is not a puzzle at all. It happens even today in places like New Orleans where bodies are buried above ground.
Joseph
after jesus' death, mat.
27 : 52-53 reads : and the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.
let me first give cognac the credit for having raised this topic lately (i don't know what was written on jwd in the past on this subject).
Everastudent,
We are not talking about the same earthquake. What you are describing was an aftershock quite common during severe earthquakes. Then again not all hills were downhill of the wall. The Mount of Olives for example was higher and they could look down on the temple from there. The walls had entrance ways in them so bodies could get in. But this is not the point here. The point being made is that after being released from the tombs, the bodies had to be prepared for reburial by someone and touching them any earlier would make them unclean for this high Passover taking place. The Law was very clear on this and we should stay with what we know. This is really how they got into the city so people could see them. And the three day delay involved proved that a high Sabbath was taking place at the time. I learned this over 30 years ago just by following the events in real time. Making up things like throwing bodies 20 feet and more should never be done unless you have proof. Do you? Another thing that we should not do is question Paul's work in the faith as if we are smarter than him. Questioning Paul is like questioning the decision Jesus made when appointing him as His apostle. Was that a mistake made by Jesus? I notice this done a lot when their errors are exposed. The mistake here is with the false doctrine being spread around over the years and believed by many organized religions. When exposed then the text and the people involved in writing it like Paul must be criticised to save face. The teachers that continue to make this mistake and follow such scholars are the ones that deserve the criticism not the texts.
Joseph
after jesus' death, mat.
27 : 52-53 reads : and the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people.
let me first give cognac the credit for having raised this topic lately (i don't know what was written on jwd in the past on this subject).
The biggest problem are the words "after his resurrection", which -- most bizarrely -- delays the appearance of those resurrected for three days (Matthew 27:53).
Leolaia,
This is not a problem since we had great Sabbath at that time which made the next two days both Sabbath days. This in itself would delay the picking up of such dead bodies for such three days to prepare them for reburial. Otherwise the living involved in the clean up work would become unclean for this Passover. And the resurrection would have taken place as well when this high Sabbath ended and the clean up work began. This accounts for this delay. There is therefor no contradiction with Paul’s discussion of the resurrection. A literal restoration of life did not take place as the scriptures teach and no evidence that such bodies lived or breathed exists. None period.
Joseph
