Posts by Jr

117

Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'

by Jr in

in order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.

these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.

and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.

Jr

Larc & Coolbreeze,
In my last comment I was not trying prove JWs to be Israel. You both said you didn’t see any proof of there being a “spiritual Israel”. That’s what I was showing. If you need reasonable proof that JWs are Israel, go to my first post.
Coolbreeze:

quote:
Did a bit of quick reaserch, and still can't find anything about "SPIRITUAL" israel.

Larc:

quote:
None of the scriputures you quote say that there is a spiritual Israel. That is your fallible, human, imperfect conclusion and theory building which creats a tenuous philosphy of man.

Emiliano,
Do you believe in Jehovah as the only true God?

117

Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'

by Jr in

in order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.

these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.

and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.

Jr

Hi,

The expression,“The Israel of God”, found only once in Scripture, refers to spiritual Israel rather than to racial descendants of Jacob. The bible speaks of “Israel in a fleshly way” as well as spiritual Israel made up of those for whom descent from Abraham is not a requirement. Matt. 3:9 says, “do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘As a father we have Abraham’. For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.” When the apostle Paul used the expression “the Israel of God”, he showed that it had nothing to do with being a descendant of Abraham. Gal. 6:15,16 says, “ For neither is circumcision anything nor is uncircumcision, but a new creation is something. And all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God.”
The prophet Hosea also foretold that God, in rejecting the nation of natural Israel in favor of this spiritual nation, which includes Gentiles, would say “to those not my people: ‘You are my people’” (Ho. 2:23) That is why Jesus said, “This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt.21:43) Even though the words, ‘spiritual Israel’ is not used, it refers to a spiritual nation instead of fleshly, not tied by blood relation. This is the “Israel of God”. So, when we see the terms Israel or Jews, in prophecy that has not been fulfilled, we know it refers to this Israel, not fleshly Israel. They have been abandoned.

JR

Edited by - Jr on 4 March 2001 22:40:15

24

The kings of the earth and Armaggeddon and wrath!

by spectromize in

jw
friends

then the kings of the earth and the great men and the generals and the rich and the strong, and everyone, slave and free, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, "fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand before it?".

some of the kings of the earth and their supporters are aware of what the bible book of revelation says concerning the time of the end and their destruction for not having acknowledge jehovah's rulership and sovereignty, also they have failed to acknowledge jesus as king of kings and lord of lords in subject to the great king jehovah god.. the scriptures have put satan's system on notice but few take notice.

they prefer to live like the days of noah.

Jr

Hi Neyank,
The bible never said that God's people would manifest a good moral standing in the last days. In fact, it says the opposite. When you look at the prophecies, you will see that the nation of Israel is in a bad way. They have deviated from up holding Jehovah's name. But they will be disciplined for it. Listen to what is being said in Eze 36:
“ Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “Not for your sakes am I doing it, O house of Israel, but for my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have come in.” And I shall certainly sanctify my great name, which was being profaned among the nations, which you profaned in the midst of them ; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, ’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified among you before their eyes. (Eze. 36:22-24)
They are in line for discipline before the whole world. Then, they will know Jehovah and have his favor.

When you examine the teachings of JWs and other religions, you will see, there can be no other religion to qualify as "Spiritual Israel". If they believe in the trinity, hell fire, immortality of the soul, uses idols; they cannot be acceptable as "Israel".
JR

Edited by - Jr on 6 March 2001 17:20:3

70

Jehovah's day will come as a thief in the night

by spectromize in

jw
friends

it's true!

many of you here who scoff at the battle of armaggedon being a reality are in for a big surprise.

it will be a fear inspiring day in which there will only be one side that will survive.

Jr

Lets examine the subject of this apostasy. 1) Act 21:21, where Paul is called an apostate for teaching the words of Jesus. 2) 2 Thess. 2:3, where a prophecy shows that an apostasy would occur before the “coming of the day of Jehovah”.
Paul was not an apostate. So lets move on to # 2. 2 Thess. 2:3, “Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it, will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction”. Most scholars apply this to a great apostasy of the true Christian congregation in the last days, before the restoration of Israel. I also agree. The proof:

Daniel 11:15,16, “And the king of the North will come and throw up a siege rampart and actually capture a city with fortification…And he will stand in the land of Decoration…” -The land of “Decoration” has always referred to where God’s people reside. As I continue, Daniel 11:30 says, “And he will actually go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will have to go back and will give consideration to those leaving the holy covenant. And there will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.
And they will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation.
And those who are acting wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words.” This is the apostasy referred to in 2 Thess. 2:3. This has to do when “Babylon the Great”, the “House of God”, mounts the beast. The bible shows that the king of the north will lead the “house of God” into apostasy. This will start the “Great tribulation”. In Matthew 24, it mentions this, “when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains. “ Those that act with insight, will begin to flee. But, there will be no escaping Jehovah's discipline. Where Babylon the Great will eventually be destroyed, those that flee into the wilderness will still be severely discipline by Jehovah. It will be for their benefit to come to know Jehovah. Revelation 12:6 says, “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” The woman referred to here is the group that has fled into the wilderness, away from the beast. These are the ones that will recognize the disgusting thing in the holy place, where it aught not, in the congregation.

JR

Edited by - Jr on 6 March 2001 17:33:32

7

"The nations will know"

by Jr in

no doubt you are familiar with the text at eze.

36:23. i quote, and the nations will have to know that i am jehovah, is the utterance of the sovereign lord jehovah.

it was used as a title for one of the study publications years ago.

Jr

No doubt you are familiar with the text at Eze. 36:23. I quote, “and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah”.

It was used as a title for one of the study publications years ago. No doubt you and everyone else are familiar. Well this book was used to show that Jehovah would glorify his name by means of his people. In other words, the nations would look upon his people as being vindicated, thus glorifying his name. BUT, if we look closely at the surrounding verses, we will see that isn’t what is being said. It is just the opposite. And I quote,

“ Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “Not for your sakes am I doing [it], O house of Israel, but for my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have come in.” And I shall certainly sanctify my great name, which was being profaned among the nations, which you profaned in the midst of them ; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, ’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified among you before their eyes. (Eze. 36:22-24)

So, as you can see, Israel is in fact being disciplined before the eyes of the nations. This is what will show the nations who Jehovah is. Then he will restore “her”. And I quote, “ This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘In the day of my cleansing you from all your errors I will also cause the cities to be inhabited, and the devastate places must be rebuilt. And the desolated land itself will be cultivated, whereas it had become a desolate waste before the eyes of every passerby.” (Eze. 36:33-34) These are future events.

And that is why I quoted Isa. 30:26 before, ““And the light of the full moon must become as the light of the glowing sun; and the very light of the glowing sun will become seven times as much, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals even the severe wound resulting from the stroke BY HIM.”

Daniel also mentions this, “And I saw, I Daniel, and, look! There were two others standing, one on the bank here of the stream and the other on the bank there of the stream. Then one said to the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream: “How long will it be to the end of the wonderful things?” And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: “It will be for and appointed time, appointed times and a half.” And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the HOLY PEOPLE to pieces , all these things will come to their finish.”

See the holy ones will be “dashed to pieces.”

If you look at the footnote of this scripture, you will see it references Rev. 11:7. There it talks about the two witnesses doing a witnessing work. But if you look at 11:1-4, you will see that this holy city will be trampled 42 months. This holy city has reference to where God’s people reside. And the two witnesses will do their work 1260 days.

IF YOU LOOK AT DANIEL 12:9,10’s reference (g), you will see it points the REV. 7:14 and I quote,

“ So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one that knows.” And he said to me: These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the book of the Lamb.”

Yes, it is the “holy ones” that have been dashed to pieces that are being disciplined. The great tribulation will be upon Jehovah’s people, not the world. It will be their discipline. And then they would have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb. That is why the scriptures say, “judgment starts with the house of God.” JEHOVAH IS NOT PLEASED WITH HIS PEOPLE IN THE LAST DAYS. That is why he MUST discipline them. For who ever he loves, he disciplines. (Heb. 12:6)

JR

Edited by - Jr on 4 March 2001 16:2:39

The 'House of God' put on notice!

by Jr in

lets consider what is said about the house of god.

1 peter 4:17 say, judgments starts with the house of god.

according to the wt though there seems to be an attempt to try to shift the responsibility away from them and place it elsewhere.

Jr

Let’s consider what is said about the “house of God.” 1 Peter 4:17 say, “Judgments starts with the house of God.” According to the WT though there seems to be an attempt to try to shift the responsibility away from them and place it elsewhere. The book of Revelation it’s Grand Climax at Hand, pg 260 says,

“From 1914 to 1918, these [International Bible Students] suffered greatly at the hands of Babylon the Great, but in 1918 the Lord Jehovah and his ‘messenger of the [Abrahamic] covenant, ‘Jesus Christ, began judgment with ‘the house of God’, those professing to be Christians. Thus “apostate Christendom was brought to trial” (Malachi 3:1; 1Peter 4:17)”

Did you get it? Yes, “apostate Christendom was brought to trial!” Christendom, and not God’s Name people, the JWs, here represents the “house of God” under judgment”. The “Society” clearly identifies Christendom as the “house of God”. They continue,

“Her [Christendom] tremendous bloodguilt incurred during the first world war, her complicity in persecuting Jehovah’s faithful witnesses, and her Babylonish creeds did not help her in the time of judgment; nor did any other part of Babylon the Great merit God’s approval. Isa 13: 1-9”

Now on other occasions, the WT applies the same expression of “God’s Household” mentioned at 1 Peter 4:17 to JWs. In the publication “Choosing the Best Way of Life, pg 133 par 48,49 & pg 135 par 52 they apply it to the Christian congregation. I quote,

“As a “house of God,” the Christian congregation had its beginning in 33 CE. From that time onward its members have been under divine judgment. Their response to his will, and their attitude, words and actions toward the things that Jehovah allows to befall them have much to do with what his final verdict will be…Since Jehovah God allows his ‘loyal’ servants to undergo severe treatment to refine them and for them to demonstrate their devotion, how could we imagine that the “ungodly man and the sinner” inside the Christian congregation or “house of God” could even “make a showing “ before Him along with “the righteous man” inside the same congregation? “

It is his name that matters to him in all generations. That is why he said of the Jews, “For, look! It is upon the city upon which my name is called that I am starting off in bringing calamity.” Jeremiah 25:29

The “house of God “ could not ever have been Christendom because they never qualified to begin with. They never acknowledged Jehovah God’s as the one and only true God. Nor have they carried that name. Yes the “House of God” could only be the true Christian congregation. Would you not agree? That is why the scriptures say,

“Now if it [judgment] starts with US, what will the end be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?” 1 Peter 4:17

The high qualification of being considered the “house of God” can only apply to the “true” Christian congregation. My point is this, if the “house of God” is JWs, there is much to answer for. For instance: Did you know that the “house of God” is destined to be severely disciplined by Jehovah in the last days?

Isa. 30:26 says, “And the light of the full moon must become as the light of the glowing sun; and the very light of the glowing sun will become seven times as much, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals even the severe wound resulting from the stroke BY HIM.”(The stroke-wound and restoration has not occurred yet)

Jeremiah 23:19,20 says, “Look! A windstorm of Jehovah, rage itself, has gone forth, an onward-sweeping tempest. Upon the head of the wicked ones it will whirl. The burning anger of Jehovah will not turn back until he will have carried out and until he will have made the ideas of his heart come true. In the final part of the days you people [Israel] will give your consideration to it with understanding. “ (This raging in the final part of the days and this coming to understanding has not occurred)

JR

Edited by - Jr on 3 March 2001 23:24:0

117

Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'

by Jr in

in order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.

these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.

and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.

Jr

In order to qualify as “ Spiritual Israel” there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths. These basic truths are revealed in the “Law covenant” given by Moses. And can be traced down from the nation of Israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time. These basic truths have survived for centuries.

Upon examination of the historical facts, that these fundamental truths have been maintained by small Christian groups down through the years, since the 1st century. The “Spiritual Israel” that the bible speaks of in the last days, according to prophecy, has to meet certain criteria. Here are three that must be met by “Modern day Israel”:

1) Called by God’s Personal Name

2) Monotheistic (one God concept)

3) Iconoclastic (no images in worship)

These must be reflected in any group that might qualify as “Modern day Israel”. As you can see, there are not that many choices. Yes, I see scriptural support to show JWs as the nation of “Israel”, “Modern day Israel”. That is a serious statement considering what responsibility goes with carrying that name. But, I would like to stretch your thirst for truth a bit if I may.

JR

70

Jehovah's day will come as a thief in the night

by spectromize in

jw
friends

it's true!

many of you here who scoff at the battle of armaggedon being a reality are in for a big surprise.

it will be a fear inspiring day in which there will only be one side that will survive.

Jr

A prophetic truth that the 'Society' recognized. When you examine the following quote, you will see that the 'Society' recognized that the "house of God" and "Babylon the Great" are one and the same.

The book of Revelation it’s Grand Climax at Hand, pg 260 says,

“From 1914 to 1918, these [International Bible Students] suffered greatly at the hands of Babylon the Great, but in 1918 the Lord Jehovah and his ‘messenger of the [Abrahamic] covenant, ‘Jesus Christ, began judgment with ‘the house of God’, those professing to be Christians. Thus “apostate Christendom was brought to trial” (Malachi 3:1; 1Peter 4:17)”

Much of the prophecies verify this. That is why Revelation 18:4 says,"Get out of her my people, if you don not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plaques."

Revelation 17:6 say, "And I saw the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with blood of the witnesses of Jesus." Who else has killed the prophets of Jehovah? Who has killed Jehovah's sheep for their on selfish protection. When someone speaks out to expose a wrong in the organization, it is the holy one that is spiritually killed, disfellowshipped. It is the house of God that will become "Babylon the Great". "BECOME. Yes, she will become such. She will go from bad to worst. The scriptures show that she becomes "Babylon the Great" in her fullest form when she mounts the back of the beast. That is why Isa.2:1-6 mentions the nations streaming to the "house of the God of Jacob" in the last days. Nations will beat their swords into plowshares. But, if you notice in verse 5,6 they are leaving the "house of Jacob". There is a difference. The "house of Jacob" has become wicked in the last days according to the prophecy. And I quote, "O men of the house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of Jehovah. For you have forsaken your people, the "house of Jacob". For they have become full of what is from the East, and they are practicers of magic like the Philistines, and with the children of foreigners they abound." (Isa.2:5,6)

Even though they recognized this connection, they try to shift the responsibility to Christendom. They know they are the house of God.(1 Peter 4:17) "judgment starts with the house of God."

JR

Edited by - Jr on 3 March 2001 22:52:34

27

The writing is on the wall the pale horse is here.

by spectromize in

jw
friends

when you look at the news headlines concerning the many out of control pestilences, i can't help but think of the scripture in revelation chapter 6 verse 8, what do you all think about this subject?

Jr

I'll try.

27

The writing is on the wall the pale horse is here.

by spectromize in

jw
friends

when you look at the news headlines concerning the many out of control pestilences, i can't help but think of the scripture in revelation chapter 6 verse 8, what do you all think about this subject?

Jr

Is that more to your liking???