So, Jehovahs promise to the "Israelites" go to Abrahams seed, faithful Chrisians. These Christians, I must emphasize, must meet the very criteria outlined in my first post, which is based on scripture. And I quote, The “Spiritual Israel” that the bible speaks of in the last days, according to prophecy, has to meet certain criteria. Here are three that must be met by “Modern day Israel”:
1) Called by God’s Personal Name
2) Monotheistic (one God concept)
3) Iconoclastic (no images in worship)
These must be reflected in any group that might qualify as “Modern day Israel”. As you can see, there are not that many choices. Yes, I see scriptural support to show JWs as the nation of “Israel”, “Modern day Israel”. That is a serious statement considering what responsibility goes with carrying that name.
Yes, these ones must, and I repeat must, have the framework of truth in order to be considered " Modern-Day Israel".
JR
Posts by Jr
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117Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
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Jr
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117
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
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Jr
So Emiliano,
As BJC2012 mentions 2 post up,
Galatians 3:29 says, "Moreover, If you belong to christ, you are really Abraham's seed, heirs with reference to a promise."
Would'nt this allow Jehovah to extend his promise to Abraham's seed, all those belonging to Christ, including the gentiles?
JR
Edited by - Jr on 7 March 2001 12:42:3 -
117
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
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Jr
Remember, Paul made no distinction between a natural Jew and a gentile in the Christian congregation. He said they were no longer Jews based on fleshly relation. So, when James wrote this letter, he was talking to all Christians. The Christian congregation replaced the Jewish system. Now, if you say, only Jews were Christians, prove it.
JR
Edited by - Jr on 7 March 2001 9:33:56 -
117
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
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Jr
Emiliano,
Jesus said, “This is why I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt.21:43)
Would you agree that all Christians in the first century were viewed as Israelites when they were grafted into this tree?
Talking of the Pharisees, Jesus went on, “On hearing they said: “Never may that happen!” But he looked upon them and said : “What, then, does this that is written mean, ‘The stone which the builder rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone’? Everyone falling upon the stone will be shattered. As for anyone upon whom it falls, it will pulverize him.”
Jehovah had every intention of Destroying and replacing this people. That is why Jesus said, “This is why I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt.21:43)
JR -
117
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
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Jr
Hi MDS,
By George, I think you've got it! It says it all! "IF" & "THEN" Yep, it says it all. This "IRREVOCABLE" promise that Emiliano mentioned is not so IRREVOCABLE at all. It has always been conditional. It sounds good to ME!! IF THEN UMMM! Great job BJC!
JR -
117
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
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Jr
Emiliano,
I am impressed!! You have a good knowledge base. Great!! When you look at it at face value it does appear to be just that! You would be correct! The prophecies surrounding this discussion get quite deep. In fact the drama that played out in the first century is about to play out again. This Israel, the 'house of God', is the 'Mysterious Babylon the Great' that will be destroyed. Yes, God will tell his people to get out of her before he destroys her. I am not sure I want to start down that road at this point, but there is a simple way to show that the 'natural Jews' and the Israelites spoken of in Revelation are different. If you look at the names listed in Revelation 7, you will see that the twelve tribes are different than the original 12 tribes. And maybe, we can continue this after I have given it some more thought. If you would like to look at the information about Babylon the Great, 'Logical' has posted this subject on Feb. 9 in 'Bible research'.
JR -
117
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
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Jr
Emiliano,
Just in case you missed my last post along with an additional comment at the end: Jesus gave an illustration that depicts the situation perfectly. He speaking of Jehovah’s vineyard, Luke 20:9-16,
“ Then he started to tell the people this illustration: “A man planted a vineyard and let it out to cultivators, and he traveled abroad for considerable time. But in due season he sent out a slave to the cultivators, that they might give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. The cultivators, however, sent him away empty, after beating him up. But he repeated and sent them a different slave. That one also they beat up and dishonored and sent away empty. Yet again he sent a third; this one also they wounded and threw out. At this the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my son the beloved. Likely they will respect this one. ‘ When the cultivators caught sight of him they went reasoning with one another, saying, ‘This is the heir; let us kill him, that the inheritance may become ours’. With that they threw him outside the vineyard and killed him. What, therefore, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy these cultivators and will give the vineyard to others.”
Talking of the Pharisees, Jesus went on, “On hearing they said: “Never may that happen!” But he looked upon them and said : “What, then, does this that is written mean, ‘The stone which the builder rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone’? Everyone falling upon the stone will be shattered. As for anyone upon whom it falls, it will pulverize him.”
Jehovah had every intention of Destroying and replacing this people. That is why Jesus said, “This is why I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt.21:43)
On a second note: When one is anointed, it is a confirmation of their official appointment to an office of service. It is not to identify one as being of a group or nation, in this case being a Jew. It is a confirmation. Jehovah did not appoint a nation by anointing them. He confirmed it. The ones that were anointed in the first century were already considered a Christian nation to Jesus and his father. It was confirmed when Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them. Well, what made them a nation in Jehovah’s eyes? It was their faith . Speaking of Abraham, at Romans 4:11, “And he received a sign, namely, circumcision, as a seal of the righteousness by the faith he had while in his uncircumcised state, that he might be the father of all those having faith while in uncircumcision, in order for righteousness to be counted to them.” It was this anointing that was used to confirm them as…
To Jehovah this spiritual nation is the nation of Jews. They are declared so by their faith, not by an annointing or fleshly inheritance. Jehovah is keeping his promise to Abraham. Abraham is a father to these ones, "that he might be the father of all those having faith while in uncircumcision, in order for righteousness to be counted to them".(Romans 4:11) These are the ones that the prophecies in Revelation apply to. Fleshly desent is no longer a requirement. They blew it. It's FAITH !!
JR -
117
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
-
-
Jr
Emiliano,
Jesus gave an illustration that depicts the situation perfectly. He speaking of Jehovah’s vineyard, Luke 20:9-16,
“ Then he started to tell the people this illustration: “A man planted a vineyard and let it out to cultivators, and he traveled abroad for considerable time. But in due season he sent out a slave to the cultivators, that they might give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. The cultivators, however, sent him away empty, after beating him up. But he repeated and sent them a different slave. That one also they beat up and dishonored and sent away empty. Yet again he sent a third; this one also they wounded and threw out. At this the owner of the vineyard said, ‘What shall I do? I will send my son the beloved. Likely they will respect this one. ‘ When the cultivators caught sight of him they went reasoning with one another, saying, ‘This is the heir; let us kill him, that the inheritance may become ours’. With that they threw him outside the vineyard and killed him. What, therefore, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy these cultivators and will give the vineyard to others.”
Talking of the Pharisees, Jesus went on, “On hearing they said: “Never may that happen!” But he looked upon them and said : “What, then, does this that is written mean, ‘The stone which the builder rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone’? Everyone falling upon the stone will be shattered. As for anyone upon whom it falls, it will pulverize him.”
Jehovah had every intention of Destroying and replacing this people. That is why Jesus said, “This is why I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt.21:43)
On a second note: When one is anointed, it is a confirmation of their official appointment to an office of service. It is not to identify one as being of a group or nation, in this case being a Jew. It is a confirmation. Jehovah did not appoint a nation by anointing them. He confirmed it. The ones that were anointed in the first century were already considered a Christian nation to Jesus and his father. It was confirmed when Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them. Well, what made them a nation in Jehovah’s eyes? It was their faith . Speaking of Abraham, at Romans 4:11, “And he received a sign, namely, circumcision, as a seal of the righteousness by the faith he had while in his uncircumcised state, that he might be the father of all those having faith while in uncircumcision, in order for righteousness to be counted to them.” It was this anointing that was used to confirm them as…
JR -
117
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
-
-
Jr
Emiliano,
So, you believe the natural Jews will be restored to God's favor, even though they don't except his son as King? And you also believe the gentiles will be grafted into the natural nation of Jews? This will become the 'Spiritual nation of Israel'? Is this correct?
JR -
117
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr inin order to qualify as spiritual israel there has to be certain fundamental characteristics or basic truths.
these basic truths are revealed in the law covenant given by moses.
and can be traced down from the nation of israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time.
-
-
Jr
Execellent!! MDS Excellent!!
JR