Posts by alice.in.wonderland

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

"You profess to be an inactive JW who actively associates with DF'd persons, ignoring 'administrative' directives of your faith. You are a hypocrite."

Hypocrisy is the act of persistently professing beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that are inconsistent with one's actions. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie. - Wikipedia

If you want to get this personal I'm not persistently professing beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards, I'm simply countering slander that runs rife here. Lay off personalizing strangers. You know nothing about me.

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

""If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother.... Today, also, God requires and exacts from his children obedience honor and respect. These must be rendered not only to the living God himself, but to his wifely organization as well" Watchtower, 1 May 1957, p. 274"

If anyone makes the statement: “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also. 1 John 4:20-21

The way a person relates to God's human organization has something to do with the way a person relates to God. Do you respect the organization? Not likely. That's why I said what I said.

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

"You hold up the WTBS practice of shunning as being scripturally based, yet you don't follow it."

And you adhere to all of God's laws? I'm not a hypocrite because I haven't professed to be anyone or anything I'm not.

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

“Why are you associating with DF'd people on this board? Doesn't the governing body tell you not to go on these sites? Why are you here? You aren't going to convince anybody.”

The “governing body” isn't anyone's mommy. They simply have a relative position to maintain orderliness like any other administrative position in an organization.

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

"says who?"

Objectivism has been very popular in the business community and on a personal level for many people, but recent events have changed things some.

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/12/09/who-is-to-blame.html

Who Is To Blame?

Some point to Alan Greenspan. But his hands-off approach to the economy originated with Ayn Rand.

It's not easy being Alan Greenspan these days. As the former Federal Reserve chairman, he urged government regulators to take a light touch while banks like Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers buried themselves—and the economy more generally—under a mountain of debt. Now that his reputation is plummeting faster than the stock market, he's been forced to admit a "flaw" in his hands-off ideology.

Of course, things look entirely different to members of "free-market advocacy groups," as they like to be called. One such group is the Ayn Rand Institute, named after the matriarch of the movement, whose antigovernment and anti-regulation views are embodied in her best-selling novels "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead." Indeed, Greenspan himself was a friend of Rand's, and a devotee of her extreme free-market philosophy, known as Objectivism. NEWSWEEK's Barrett Sheridan spoke with the head of the Ayn Rand Institute, Dr. Yaron Brook, about why he defends free markets while much of the rest of the world has turned away from them, and what he thinks of Greenspan today.

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

"I don't consider them to be things to throw away when they become unpractical."

I don't either.

"That was not the focus of the article and I find it curious how you're trying to make it fit into whatever point you're trying to push here."

I did gather from the article “If a person has no practical value to another person, dismiss them from your life.”

Objectivism is a popular philosophy that is code language for “let society be damned.” This is a common trend in the world with or without some empty philosophy telling you to do so. Jehovah's Witnesses shunning isn't out of selfish motives. They don't like it.

http://objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-406-FAQ_Virtue_Selfishness.aspx

What does Ayn Rand mean when she describes selfishness as a virtue?

Ayn Rand rejects altruism, the view that self-sacrifice is the moral ideal. She argues that the ultimate moral value, for each human individual, is his or her own well-being. Since selfishness (as she understands it) is serious, rational, principled concern with one's own well-being, it turns out to be a prerequisite for the attainment of the ultimate moral value. For this reason, Rand believes that selfishness is a virtue.

Rand writes, "[A]ltruism permits no concept of a self-respecting, self-supporting man—a man who supports his own life by his own effort and neither sacrifices himself nor others … it permits no concept of benevolent co-existence among men … it permits no concept of justice"

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

"I don't understand this article to be about "worldly shunning" at all."

If a person has no practical value to another person, dismiss them from your life. You didn't derive this point from reading this? I see people do this often out of selfish motives whether someone is family or not. I don't necessarily do that.

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

"Most inactive JW's have no problem associating with DF'd persons whether it's family members or on forums full of ex-JW's. They justify not following the GB's instructions for hypocritical reasons. The shunning begins when the inactive JW get 'righteous' regularly attends meetings and FS."

It's not the “GB's instructions,” it's taken from 1 Corinthians 5:9-13:

In my letter I wrote you to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world. But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.” 1 Corinthians 5:9-13
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy

a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

It's not hypocritical to defend an organization if others are publicly defaming it by distorting the truth, even if they're not actively engaged in it. How can someone condemn a person for shunning and then call them hypocritical for not shunning?

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

"Your own website makes it clear that you should only be contacting your DFd mother for essential family business."

It depends on the situation. In your case I would have to convince you that a supreme being exists and go from there. This can be accomplished if you're not disfellowshipped.

156

Worldly Shunning

by alice.in.wonderland in

i hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.

most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.

alice.in.wonderland

As for me, I have a disfellowshipped mother I associate with.