Posts by alice.in.wonderland

116

2nd video on 1919 Watchtower's Wacky Chronology

by Awakened at Gilead in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfrz4bepvye.

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i had some time to put this together... let me know what you think... .

alice.in.wonderland

"Some of the individuals that tell things to the elders are nod children, they're of the age of accountability (older teens and adults).

Stupid, stupid, stupid, older teens are not legally accountable until the age of majority of 18 (that is true in the US, I can't vouch for other countries). A teen under the age of majority cannot enter into legal contract and therefore cannot be sued (there are exceptions to that rule such as murder cases where a teen can be tried as an adult). If an older teen reports being molested to CPS it is taken under consideration the same as if the report came from a younger teen or a preteen or a child.

Geez, you're stupid."

A person who is less than 18 years of age is considered a juvenile, but this is referring to whether or not they can be legally tried as an adult in a court of law, and subjected to the same punishment as an adult upon conviction.

What I'm specifying here are prepubescent teens that make allegations of abuse. This is taken very seriously by most people (excluding the Micheal Jackson trial). If a fifteen year old testifies in court, their testimony will not be automatically accepted as incriminating evidence if there's conflicting testimony and no other witnesses or no physical evidence. I shouldn't have to explain this to an adult.

56

FAO: Bane - You Mentioned the Eye

by cantleave in

jw
friends

i don't want to hijack the other thread.. you mention the eye being better than any camera so lets discuss this.

i used to give a talk where i would use the complexity of the eye as evidence of creation, but i have since changed my mind and below is the reasoning that helped me do so.. i would welcome you comments and reasoning against this.. if you had a choice between being totally blind and being able to see things out of focus, which would you pick.. i'm sure you would, like me prefer to have out of focus vision, than no vision at all.. would you rather have vision that was out of focus and devoid of color, or be totally blind.

i'm sure you prefer the colour option.. how about if you could only see vague shapes around you or blindness?

alice.in.wonderland

"Superficial assertions of the human eye as an irreducibly complex organ.'

Correction: Superficial assertions of the human eye as a reducibly complex organ is not evidence for macroevolution nor is there an adequate demonstration of macroevolution..

116

2nd video on 1919 Watchtower's Wacky Chronology

by Awakened at Gilead in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfrz4bepvye.

.

i had some time to put this together... let me know what you think... .

alice.in.wonderland

"So you believe most if not all of the accusations (even the ones that have gone to court, been proven, and the wt paid out on) against jws of child molestations have been mere conjecture? What proof do you have of that? None. All you have dear Alice is conjecture, nothing more.

You don't have the balls to go against Bill Bowen. All you have is your ranting and raving about the poor innocent jws who have been accused of touching a child and you even have the nerve to try and defend the ones who have been found guilty at the expense of the victim.

You're no mother."

“So you believe most if not all of the accusations (even the ones that have gone to court, been proven, and the wt paid out on) against jws of child molestations have been mere conjecture?”

I said nothing like this and you're evading my question. Nothing would have ever gone to court if it wasn't for people like Bill Bowen or Barbra Anderson.

For example, in the case of Amy B Vs WT, the petition wasn't filed until 06/03/03; this was after Bill Bowen and like minded individuals initiated their crusade. The only people that find the fantasy of Jehovah's Organization being a pedophilia paradise appealing are apostates with an appetite for damaging the reputation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

It's been my experience that Jehovah's Organization operates a lot like the corperation I work for. If something is broken it is fixed very quickly. I have yet to discover the system Jehovah's Witnesses uses for weeding out problematic members in the congregation is flawed. No one here has presented anything credible that the system Jehovah's Witnesses uses to deal with corruption needs improvement.

Who Has a Better Policy?

I'm open to suggestions.

116

2nd video on 1919 Watchtower's Wacky Chronology

by Awakened at Gilead in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfrz4bepvye.

.

i had some time to put this together... let me know what you think... .

alice.in.wonderland

"This is the way I see it:

I am a mother of four children, one of whom is a girl of 12 years. If my daughter, God forbid, came to me and told me that she had been molested for a number of years the first thought directed towards my daughter that would go through my mind would not be "Why didn't you call CPS?" My first thought would be "I'm gonna kill the bastard" and then after I calmed down (as if that would be possilble) I would call the cops.

I would never ever blame my children or any other child for not going to the authorities. I would blame the sick **** for having the nerve to touch my child and thinking that they were going to get away with it.

I really don't believe that you're a mother like you've claimed on this board Alice."

My daughter is three years old. Some of the individuals that tell things to the elders are not children, they're of the age of accountability (older teens and adults). This is where complications arise. You don't throw the book at someone based on the testimony of one person and nothing else. This applies in the Christian congregation and in a court of law. Being innocent, how would you like it if someone contacted CPS to conduct an investigation into your family based on mere conjecture? What do you make of this?

http://www.silentlambs.org/education/CNNtranscript.cfm

116

2nd video on 1919 Watchtower's Wacky Chronology

by Awakened at Gilead in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfrz4bepvye.

.

i had some time to put this together... let me know what you think... .

alice.in.wonderland

"Are you absolutely brain dead ? We all know how and what the JWS (Elders) have done or didn't do, quit trying to protect your

religion or your father as the case may be with falsified facts and disingenuous counter opinions.

Your exposing your own inward corruption and dishonesty to the public, whether you realize it or not.

Like I said before AIW your helping people with leaving the JW organization in a very discerning way with your comments.

Keep up the good work , humanity will thank you down the road in one way or another."

As usual, another useless ad-hominem attack in the name of "intelligent and productive discussion." A never-ending source of amusement. But, it is par for the course for you. Desperate, intellectually hollow and useless. Everything I have come to expect from a typical post from you.

116

2nd video on 1919 Watchtower's Wacky Chronology

by Awakened at Gilead in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfrz4bepvye.

.

i had some time to put this together... let me know what you think... .

alice.in.wonderland

If someone is over the age of fifteen and has the cognition to tell an elder, they can contact Child Protective Services first and get better results. When it comes to this type of illegal activity, there's no reason to go to an elder prior to contacting CPS, and there's nothing in the WTBTS abuse policy or any instruction from the platform in any Kingdom Hall that suggests you should do this.

Unfortunately, my father was raised by a cruel man and lost his temper with my sister when she was fifteen. She told the elders and they investigated the matter to the best of their abilities. They told our family in 1993 “if this situation is what is, this is no longer just a congregational matter, we have to contact the local authorities. They didn't contact CPS because I was a witness and the instance of abuse wasn't serious enough to get CPS involved and it never happened again. If the abuse was serious enough to where the authorities needed to be involved, there's no reason why she shouldn't have contacted CPS herself prior to telling them. Even if the person is expelled from the congregation, the problem isn't necessarily going to stop.

Because there are people who are going to try and blame people for the wrongdoing of others so there will be a legal defence to protect the organization from the damage of devious individuals. This is all in public records. How do you explain this?

http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/othersuits.html

How have the courts answered? Much to the chagrin of Bowen here is the list we have comprised thus far with the resulting judgments.

Rees Vs WT--Summarily dismissed.
Amy B Vs WT--Summarily dismissed.
Amber Long Vs WT--Summarily dismissed.
Heidi Meyers Vs WT--Summarily dismissed.
Berry Vs WT--Summarily dismissed.
Beal et al Vs WT--Summarily dismissed.
Decorso Vs WT--Summarily dismissed.
Erica Garza Rodriguez Vs WT--Dismissed.
Nolen's Eleven Vs WT--Dropped or summarily dismissed.
Boer Vs WT--WT nets $137,000.
Welch, Nicole D, Tabitha H. Vs WT--dismissed with prejudice.
Kara L. Vs WT--dismissed with prejudice.
Daniel West et al Vs WT--dismissed with prejudice.
Wimberly Gutierez et al Vs WT--dismissed with prejudice.
Tim W Vs WT--dismissed with prejudice.
Jared Grafmyer Vs WT--dismissed with prejudice.
A.B., G.G., S.H.,N.H., et al Vs WT--dismissed with prejudice.
Friends of Amanda M. Vs WT--dismissed without prejudice.

Dismissed with prejudice means the prosecution deliberately tried to mislead the judge or jury.

30

Re-reading "Crisis of Conscience" again....

by ziddina in

the 'revelations' hit me even harder, the second time around..... i purchased two copies, the version copyrighted 1983 and the version copyrighted 2004. i kept the old version [1983] and just donated the 2004 copy to my local library - with a quick warning that 'cult' members may be inclined to steal the expose.

i decided to read it again to try to visualize how a "worldly" person who is unacquainted with the jws would view the book.... in reading the book again, i am more forcefully struck by the blatant contradictions between the 'official' stance of the watchtower society and their 'behind-the-scenes' behavior.... chapters 3 & 4 - "governing body" and "internal upheaval and restructure" - contain some eye-popping material... the earlier portion of chapter 3 touches on the intrusive regulation of sexual practices between husband and wife [i'll bet any worldly person reading that would find that chilling, to say the least...], and then goes into the power struggles between russell's followers and rutherford's ousting of said followers during his successful bid for control.. very revealing... i was also struck by the fact that the wtbts was a religion with a single man leading it, until the very end of nathan knorr's period of leadership, despite the claims of the watchtower magazine that "god's organization" was being run by a "governing body" of spiritual "caretakers" for several years prior to the actual existence of said "governing body"!!!.

as ray franz states, page 65 of 1983 version: "[quote from 12/15/71 watchtower...]: "thus, too, even though there were no apostles of christ on hand in the nineteenth century, god's holy spirit must have been operative toward the formation of the governing body for his anoited remnant ... the facts speak for themselves.

alice.in.wonderland

"Commentary of your own, not a cut and paste from someone else to try and change the subject."

"Crisis of Conscience is a book about the struggle between loyalty to God and loyalty to one's religion."

I copied this from the book's synopsis and asked my own question. Being an athiest you should be able to relate.

116

2nd video on 1919 Watchtower's Wacky Chronology

by Awakened at Gilead in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfrz4bepvye.

.

i had some time to put this together... let me know what you think... .

alice.in.wonderland

"I wasn't asking about your family."

So how do you perceive this family? At the age of 15, 16 I knew how to dial 911.

116

2nd video on 1919 Watchtower's Wacky Chronology

by Awakened at Gilead in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfrz4bepvye.

.

i had some time to put this together... let me know what you think... .

alice.in.wonderland

"Wtf Alice, how low can you go?"

I'm not low. I have a nice clean family.

116

2nd video on 1919 Watchtower's Wacky Chronology

by Awakened at Gilead in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfrz4bepvye.

.

i had some time to put this together... let me know what you think... .

alice.in.wonderland

"You are really emotionally and intellectually off your rocker if you think fornication and pedophilia are likewise behavioral sins.

To just let the supposed laws of the ancient bible treat these circumstances as proportionally equal levels of sin is justifiably corrupt and morally weak.

Pedophilia is not an act of two consenting individuals, one is a perpetrator and the other is a innocent victim. ( unknowing and trusting children)."

I didn't state that fornication and pedophilia are equal in seriousness. Rape is in fact more serious than consensual sex. Jehovah's Witnesses don't keep fornication hush hush to give the appearance of an organization that lives in a perfect spiritual paradise with no wrongdoing whatsoever, so why would they tolerate a rapist or pedophile? My father is an elder and I know many elders. They have zero tolerance for this sort of thing. There's nothing to suggest Jehovah's Witnesses tolerate abuse and it's depraved to use the examples Bill Bowen resorts to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/audio_video/programmes/panorama/transcripts/transcript_14_07_02.txt

As a fore mentioned, this example was some sick family, a teenager that says her Dad raped her in their home for three years until she was 16. She didn't say at what age she informed the elders of the abuse, but she did say, she didn't alert the authorities until she was 18. Who knows what really happened by word of mouth between this family and the elders, but one thing is for certain, is the elders are not the legal authorities. If she was banging her Dad at the age of 16 (after three years) maybe it was consensual and her father was imprisoned for statutory rape. It's actually Bill Bowen that likes to snuggle up with disgusting people and spew a bunch of garbage for the entertainment of voyeurs.