alice.in.wonderland

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Posts by alice.in.wonderland

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  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

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  alice.in.wonderland

  "The bad examples are no excuse for doing nothing at all."

  That's not what they do.

  http://www.jw-media.org/aboutjw/article44.htm

  Contributions to the Community

  Disaster Relief

  Since World War II, Jehovah’s Witnesses have organized relief efforts to help fellow members and others who suffer the effects of war, natural disasters, or other calamities. Our experience in organizing and managing large numbers of people at our Kingdom Hall building projects and annual conventions contributes to their success in this regard. Often we are the first relief agency to appear on the scene.

  On May 2, 2008, Cyclone Nargis hit Myanmar with devastating force. Almost 140,000 people were reported dead or missing after a massive storm surge engulfed the Irrawaddy Delta region.

  In one area of Yangon, Myanmar, Jehovah’s Witnesses helped many people find refuge in the Kingdom Halls during the cyclone. For example, at the Kingdom Hall in Dala, a Witness couple took in 20 distraught neighbors who had fled there for safety. In the morning, those families were hungry, but they had no homes to return to. The husband found someone selling rice and bought enough to feed all the people.

  Initially, the cyclone left the branch office completely cut off because large trees had fallen and blocked the roads nearby. Just a few hours after the storm subsided, more than 30 members of the branch staff joined in clearing the trees by hand. As they worked, other local residents watched. Within a short time, a group of Witness women arrived with cold drinks and fresh fruit for the workers as well as for the neighbors, who could not believe what they were seeing. When a journalist observed the activity, he asked, “Who are these people who are working so efficiently?” After being told, he remarked, “I wish more people showed such true community spirit as Jehovah’s Witnesses do!”

  Jehovah’s Witnesses’ relief efforts in Haiti highlight international unity

  In cooperation with local authorities and other relief agencies, the Witnesses organized to help care for the immediate needs of their fellow worshippers and other victims in Haiti.

  Katrina relief: Local Jehovah's Witness lends a hand

  There are opposers that will put the spin on anything Jehovah's Witnesses do. Identify yourself with a religious organization that can be subjected to criticism first, criticize second.
• 
  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  alice.in.wonderland

  There's nothing in the Bible that says a religious organization has to have a formalized charity division. For one, formal religious charity services are often fronts for greedy religious leaders. There's plenty of secular charity services that are more trustworthy.

  In this country we also have forced philanthropy imposed by Democrats; welfare, disability, medicaid, medicare. Thanks to the government everyone who pays taxes is fulfilling their duty to be a philanthropist. If you feel you're are not doing enough, petition your local congressman for a tax increase or forfeit your refund.
• 
  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  alice.in.wonderland

  "Branch offices supported by donations? Let's see......

  Massive layoffs of Bethelites in the US Branch. Printing downsized, equipment sold off

  Downsizing in German Branch

  Downsizing in Italian Branch

  Downsizing in Spanish Branch

  All Branch offices in Central America to be shut down, merged with Mexico (despite growth in Latino congregations and more Spanish publications being printed than in English)

  Now, the Irish Branch Office gets dumped

  Looks like the donations aren't coming in, Alice. I wonder what the Governing Body will cut next?

  No matter what they lose, the fraud continues. They never can admit that something is very very wrong with their 'spiritual paradise". Jehovah is closing His Celestial Wallet.

  metatron"

  There was 276,233 baptized in 2009. Reorganization in facility structure doesn't say anything about the organization's expansion. Where did you get your information from? The reason I ask is because brotherdan says they have an extensive cash buffer and should thus have a charity service and you say the funds are drying up. So which is it?
• 
  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  alice.in.wonderland

  I won't answer the panhandling question anymore than someone would send money to my paypal account because I asked them to.
• 
  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  alice.in.wonderland

  "alice you idiot did you read the scripture you quoted? Paul said:

  For you yourselves know the way you ought to imitate us, because we did not behave disorderly among you nor did we eat food from anyone free. To the contrary, by labor and toil night and day we were working so as not to impose an expensive burden upon any one of you. Not that we do not have authority, but in order that we might offer ourselves as an example to you to imitate us. In fact, also, when we were with you, we used to give you this order: “If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat. 2 Thessalonians 3:7-10"

  How do the GB follow this? please help me out.. Paul made tents.. what does the GB make?

  also you ask us to read yearbooks for examples of helping the poor... help me out dear. Cite something from the year book. Use the cd rom to cut and past. I know you know how..."

  Most members of the Governing Body aside from the first ones weren't always in an administrative position and did secular work, not to mention most men their age are retired. The first ones worked secular prior to their theocratic involvement.

  You can read this and every year book contains information about missionary activity.

  jv chap. 21 p. 346 How Is It All Financed?

  In some other lands, the local economy or the financial condition of Jehovah’s Witnesses has made it very difficult, even impossible, for them to build needed branch offices to supervise the work or factories in which to publish Bible literature in the local languages. The Witnesses within the country have been given opportunity to do what they can. (2 Cor. 8:11, 12) But lack of funds in a country is not allowed to hinder the spread of the Kingdom message there if needed finances are available elsewhere.

  Thus, while local Witnesses do what they can, in a large part of the world a considerable portion of the money needed for branch buildings is provided by donations made by Jehovah’s Witnesses in other lands. That was true in connection with the building of the large complexes completed in South Africa in 1987, Nigeria in 1990, and the Philippines in 1991. It was also true of Zambia, where potential printing facilities were still under construction in 1992. It has likewise been true of many projects of smaller proportions, such as those completed in India in 1985; Chile in 1986; Costa Rica, Ecuador, Guyana, Haiti, and Papua New Guinea in 1987; Ghana in 1988; and Honduras in 1989.

  w01 6/15 p. 11 Look After Orphans and Widows in Their Tribulation

  Of course, the aid provided was moderate and in harmony with the means of the individual congregations. Money was not wasted, and those assisted were really in need. No Christian was to take unfair advantage of this arrangement, and no unnecessary burden was to be placed upon the congregation. This was clearly evident in Paul’s instructions set out at 1 Timothy 5:3-16. There we see that if the relatives of the needy were able to assist them, they were to shoulder that responsibility. Needy widows had to meet certain requirements in order to qualify for assistance. All of this reflects the wise arrangement Jehovah uses to care for those in need. Yet, it also shows that balance must be exercised so that no one presumes on the kindness shown.—2 Thessalonians 3:10-12.
• 
  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  alice.in.wonderland

  "Alice, I spent 30 years in the organization and served in many different responsibilities. You must just be ignorant. They DO NOT help the poor through the local congregations. You want to show me proof? You asked me for proof, so now I'm asking you. Is there a "Help the Needy" contribution box that I can contribute for? Yes or No? I know you won't answer that. I HAVE known of personal individuals that have helped other JWs in need. But helping the needy (including non JW's) is not a function of the organization or congregation. You and I both know that to claim otherwise is to outright lie. But you do that alot while defending them on this forum, don't you Alice?"

  If you spent 30 years in the organization you'd know that many have provided financial assistance to others. There's no official funding pool for those in destitute. A person generally likes to know something about the person they're giving financial aid to so they know what's being done with the money and that it's actually going to accomplish some good.
• 
  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  alice.in.wonderland

  "You've seen the Watchtower help the poor? You are such a liar Alice. They don't have any arrangement to help the poor. And when you say that they must be "on the road to personal responsibility" you mean that they must be baptized into the Watchtower organization, or getting ready to. Is that right?

  How can you EVER say that they help the poor? When have they given food to those that are starving in 3rd world countries. They didn't work enough so they don't deserve it, right? Isn't that the point of your heartless post? I'm so sick of your defenses Alice. I don't even think you believe them. I think that you just like playing the Devil's advocate. Or Watchtowers advocate....but they are one and the same aren't they. .."

  They help the poor through local congregations provided they show some interest in the Bible and don't invalidate their interest by abusing the hospitality of others. They've given resources to those in 3rd world countries and have educated them too. Read some of the yearbooks about congregation activity in countries like Mexico, African countries and others.
• 
  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  alice.in.wonderland

  "All of this is pointless. My complaint is not that they have the money. It is that they don't use it to help the poor and needy."

  They do help the poor and the needy if there's evidence a person is on the road to personal responsibility. I've seen this many times. They don't have the kind of money to fund poorly developed areas like the government tried to force private banks to do through the community reinvestment act. All the money that was channeled into underdeveloped committees got wasted. That's what happens when you give free money to deadbeats.

  For you yourselves know the way you ought to imitate us, because we did not behave disorderly among you nor did we eat food from anyone free. To the contrary, by labor and toil night and day we were working so as not to impose an expensive burden upon any one of you. Not that we do not have authority, but in order that we might offer ourselves as an example to you to imitate us. In fact, also, when we were with you, we used to give you this order: “If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat. 2 Thessalonians 3:7-10
• 
  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  alice.in.wonderland

  "Alice....wow....you still lurk here? Are you really ignorant of the lavish lifestyle that the leaders at brooklyn lead? I lived there. I saw their benefits. The lowly bethelites may only get $100 per month (at least that's what I got when I was there) but the leaders have corporate credit cards and charge everything to the society. When a GB member comes and gives talks they don't only stay with other witnesses. They stay at 5 star resorts and charge everything back to the WT. They have the NEWEST cars, they travel the world, they have the power over millions of people. So don't give me this 'they live a simple life' stuff."

  If you have some evidence to present towards this end, fine. There was evidence that the execs at AIG didn't simplify their personal indulgences anymore than two weeks after the government bailout.

  http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2008/10/02/after-federal-bailout-aig-fetes-in-style-in-oc/1105/

  Do you have any evidence to back your claim? Any photos of Don Adam's personal Maserati or just those of a public assembly hall? I visited Bethel several times and I have family I communicate with at Bethel that see the governing body on a regular basis. If their observation is completely different than yours it leaves something to be desired. No, they're not in control of six-million people. If a person rejects Jehovah they can withdraw God from picture and substitute other things in place of loyalty. I can see through that.
• 
  94

  WT Spending

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this topic has been discussed here before, but i still cease to be amazed at the spending that the wt does to build it's facilities.

  this is an issue that jws like to brag about.

  today i received an email regarding the open house of the new casa grande az assembly hall.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  alice.in.wonderland

  I participated in the building of the of the Assembly Hall in Rosenberg, TX. They couldn't have made the building anymore cost effective than they did. The architects (brothers who volunteered their time free of charge) that designed it from scratch could have made it ugly to put a sock in the mouth of opposers but they're of relative importance.

  Jehovah's Witnesses teach people to help themselves.

  So never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to put on?’ For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. For your heavenly Father knows you need all these things. “Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these [other] things will be added to you. Matthew 6:31-33

  The money that goes into the organization is to further Kingdom interests, it's not for charity. If a person wants to give to charity organizations that's their choice although the money that's given to these organizations is often abused. Joel Osteen has a charity aspect to his ministry although he takes a big cut of what you donate for luxury items as just about all religious leaders do. No one in Brooklyn, New York receives any money for personal reasons or for luxury items including the governing body. If you say they are money lovers and the facts by direct observation indicate otherwise, you should probably get in touch with reality and adjust your thinking.