“Your posts on here for the most part, have been nothing more than cut and pastes, you either ignore pointed questions (that you know full well you cannot answer), many of your posts go off on tangents that make no sense and are an attempt to divert attention away from the real point at hand and then you whine and bleat about the treatment you get on here.”
I answer plenty of questions and I've thoroughly answered your questions. You can do your own thinking beyond this point. Nobody rejects the Truth because it's not the Truth. It's because they're not interested. I know this from personal experience and many direct observations. Every mature Christian is familiar with issues such as this and it doesn't cast doubts in their mind:
w84 2/15 pp. 23-24 Always Ready for the End
The year 1925 also held expectations for Jehovah’s servants. It was thought that a cycle of 70 typical Jubilees (70 × 50 years) from the time Israel entered the Promised Land would end in 1925 and mark the beginning of the great antitypical Jubilee, the Millennial Reign of Christ Jesus. It did not turn out that way.
However, our family came to appreciate that unrealized hopes are not unique to our day. The apostles themselves had similar misplaced expectations. They envisioned the resurrected Jesus Christ as restoring the nation of Israel to its former glory as Jehovah’s chosen people under theocratic rule, breaking the viselike domination of the Romans. They asked Jesus: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” He answered, “It does not belong to you to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.” (Acts 1:6, 7) That same basic point has applied to the ‘faithful slave class’ today. There is an alertness, a searching to know God’s purpose, at times even an overeagerness to see the end of the world’s wicked system—but the exact timing of events is in Jehovah’s jurisdiction.—Matthew 24:34-36, 45-47.
Even if 1925 didn't hold expectations for Jehovah’s servants, nor was a solitary inaccuracy published by Jehovah's Witnesses it wouldn't change anything, your attitude is horrible. I don't know how you got this way but there's enough wickedness in this system without you contributing to it.
But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 2 Timothy 3:1-7
These types of men see nothing good in the Truth whether it's the Truth or not. Does Satan see any good in Jehovah or Jesus?
If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4
alice.in.wonderland
JoinedPosts by alice.in.wonderland
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156
Worldly Shunning
by alice.in.wonderland ini hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.
http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.
most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.
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alice.in.wonderland
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The Origin of Life / Was Life Created - Utter Lies!
by God_Delusion in"peter faces a dilemma.
his parents have taught him that god created the earth and all life on it.
they say that the bible's account of creation is trustworthy and that evolution is simply a theory-one not supported by the evidence.
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alice.in.wonderland
"The point of this thread has to do with the latest attempt by the Watchtower book and magazine publishing company to promote their brand of Biblical literalism disguised with fallacy ridden pseudo-science."
What's in the scientific community on the subject of biological evolution?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
Established in 1988 as a national resource for molecular biology information, NCBI creates public databases, conducts research in computational biology, develops software tools for analyzing genome data, and disseminates biomedical information - all for the better understanding of molecular processes affecting human health and disease. Searching for molecular Darwinism would require analyzing information stored in the databases that are divided into specific categories such as these:
Nucleotide: Core subset of nucleotide sequence records
GSS: Genome Survey Sequence records
Protein: sequence database
Genome: whole genome sequences
Structure: three-dimensional macromolecular structures
Taxonomy: organisms in GenBank
This is two studies hosted by the NCBI.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323230/
Bias in phylogenetic tree reconciliation methods: implications for vertebrate genome evolution
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1779523/pdf/gb-2006-7-5-r43.pdf
The gain and loss of genes during 600 million years of vertebrate evolution
Background: Gene duplication is assumed to have played a crucial role in the evolution of vertebrate organisms. Apart from a continuous mode of duplication, two or three whole genome duplication events have been proposed during the evolution of vertebrates, one or two at the dawn of vertebrate evolution, and an additional one in the fish lineage, not shared with land vertebrates. Here, we have studied gene gain and loss in seven different vertebrate genomes, spanning an evolutionary period of about 600 million years.If the Watchtower Bible and Track Society published information like this people who don't understand phylogenetic tree reconciliation methods would not understand as it takes a while to learn. However, these studies are not evidence for evolution. The one that cites “bias” speaks for itself and indicates studies are always changing because of inaccuracies. A phylogenetic tree or evolutionary tree is a tree showing the evolutionary relationships among various biological species or other entities that are believed to have a common ancestor. Phylogenetic trees never accurately represent a species supposed evolutionary history in relation to other species. The data on which they are based is noisy and the genetic patterns modeled do not synchronize.
The study detailing the gain and loss of genes during 600 million years of vertebrate evolution is not an adequate demonstration of macroevolution: species deriving complexity from simpler lifeforms. There's nothing in the study that indicates why the gain and loss of genes is in anyway related to vertebrate evolution.
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The Origin of Life / Was Life Created - Utter Lies!
by God_Delusion in"peter faces a dilemma.
his parents have taught him that god created the earth and all life on it.
they say that the bible's account of creation is trustworthy and that evolution is simply a theory-one not supported by the evidence.
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alice.in.wonderland
"What do you think of this brochure, Alice?"
It's just a brochure written for a diverse crowd, some who may consist of little scientific literacy, people in poorly developed nations. People with a thorough understanding of these things don't need the Watchtower Bible and Track Society to educate them on these things. The only concern about the brochure is if it contains inaccuracies that don't correlate with actual science.
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67
The Origin of Life / Was Life Created - Utter Lies!
by God_Delusion in"peter faces a dilemma.
his parents have taught him that god created the earth and all life on it.
they say that the bible's account of creation is trustworthy and that evolution is simply a theory-one not supported by the evidence.
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alice.in.wonderland
"Alice, whats the difference between atheistic evolution and theistic?"
Theistic evolutionists believe that there is a God, that God is the creator of the material universe and (by consequence) all life within, and that biological evolution is simply a natural process within that creation. Evolution, according to this view, is simply a tool that God employed to develop human life.
http://www.gotquestions.org/theistic-evolution.html
Question: "What is theistic evolution?"
Answer: Theistic evolution is one of three major origin-of-life worldviews, the other two being atheistic evolution (also commonly known as Darwinian evolution and naturalistic evolution) and special creation.
Atheistic evolution says that there is no God and that life can and did emerge naturally from preexisting, non-living building blocks under the influence of natural laws (like gravity, etc), although the origin of those natural laws is not explained. Special creation says that God created life directly, either from nothing or from preexisting materials.
Theistic evolution says one of two things. The first option is that there is a God, but He was not directly involved in the origin of life. He may have created the building blocks, He may have created the natural laws, He may even have created these things with the eventual emergence of life in mind, but at some point early on He stepped back and let His creation take over. He let it do what it does, whatever that is, and life eventually emerged from non-living material. This view is similar to atheistic evolution in that it presumes a naturalistic origin of life.The second alternative of theistic evolution is that God did not perform just one or two miracles to bring about the origin of life as we know it. His miracles were constant. He led life step by step down a path that took it from primeval simplicity to contemporary complexity, similar to Darwin’s evolutionary tree of life (fish begot amphibians who begot reptiles who begot birds and mammals, etc). Where life was not able to evolve naturally (how does a reptile's limb evolve into a bird's wing naturally?), God stepped in. This view is similar to special creation in that it presumes that God acted supernaturally in some way to bring about life as we know it.
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156
Worldly Shunning
by alice.in.wonderland ini hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.
http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.
most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.
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alice.in.wonderland
"Nearly every post Alice makes is condescending, insulting and snide. If she asks you a personal question, it is not out of concern, it is to gather enough personal information to insult you. I've seen it over and over.
She herself has even questioned why she has not been booted off this forum. Why Lady Lee expects an apology from all of us to Alice, is beyond my comprehension. I can only believe LL has not read all of what Alice has posted.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to have any kind of discussion with Alice, as she does not get the sense of anything you all say. She picks some obscure point in your post that means nothing and runs with it, and we all follow.
Until she gets real help wth her mental illness, it will be IMPOSSIBLE to reason with her. Incidentally, manipulation of others is a prominent trait of certain mental disorders and she exhibits it very well here."
If you think I came here or if you think you are going to convert someone to your way of thinking or belief, then you couldn't have been more mistaken. People with any sense who are looking for an alternate belief system don't come to forums. For the most part, people are thoroughly entrenched in their beliefs, either through tradition, fervor, exhaustive study and experience, or all of the former. There are some here that do learn about the "other" in the true spirit of a mutually beneficial exchange of knowledge or to sharpen their critical reasoning skills against opposing points of view.
The site owner stated; “Oh, and the JW / jedi mind tricks where people think double-speak like the WTS uses will allow them to get away with things doesn't work here because we see through it (you know, where the WTS claims "we never said that" when it's obvious that they did to anyone familiar with their internal code-speak).”
Interpreting logic that can be deduced as “Jedi minds tricks” is an excuse to put irrefutable logic out of your mind and resort to personal attacks that I should take quietly. Someone calls me hypocrite and I retaliate. Then you come along and complain you are tired of being called stupid when I wasn't even talking to you. Take off the blinders and keep it real. -
156
Worldly Shunning
by alice.in.wonderland ini hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.
http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.
most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.
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alice.in.wonderland
"Not only is there no wisdom in "apostasy," people seem to have left their brain at the Kingdom Hall when they left the building.
She openly admits that she no longer attends the Kingdom Hall herself. Where's your brain Alice? Still in the building?"
I attended the meeting today. None the less, not currently attending meetings does not constitute apostasy. Deliberately distorting Bible teachings (deliberate ignorance) when you know the truth does. It's somewhat interesting to challenge these arguments and set the record straight.
"Have you got short term memory problems, Alice? You came here blaming other people on your first thread and have never stopped."
Recap and read my first post: It's people here that immediately started picking at me and have resorted to passing judgment on me since my very first post. I don't use the internet in an attempt to convert anyone. There are some control freaks here that are very invasive and like to pry. -
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Disfellowshipping = Capital Punishment (death) under the Law
by blondie inthe wts has said that disfellowshipping offenses in the congregation equal the ones that resulted in execution in the nation of israel.. "insight on the scriptures" vol.
1, page 787 - heading expelling - under the mosaic law.
"expelling - judicial excommunication, or disfellowshipping...analogous to the powers of capital punishment (death)...during jesus' earthly ministry the synagogues served as courts.
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alice.in.wonderland
it-1 p. 787 Expelling
Under the Mosaic Law. For serious or deliberate violations of God’s law given through Moses a person could be cut off, that is, put to death. (Le 7:27; Nu 15:30, 31) Apostasy, idolatry, adultery, eating blood, and murder were among the offenses carrying this penalty.—De 13:12-18; Le 20:10; 17:14; Nu 35:31.This is if a person was unrepentant.
it-1 p. 590 David
Jehovah was watching, however, and uncovered the whole reprehensible matter. If Jehovah had permitted the case involving David and Bath-sheba to be handled by human judges under the Mosaic Law, both of the wrongdoers would have been put to death, and of course, the unborn offspring of their adultery would have died with the mother. (De 5:18; 22:22) Jehovah dealt with the case himself and showed mercy to David because of the Kingdom covenant (2Sa 7:11-16), no doubt because David himself had shown mercy (1Sa 24:4-7; compare Jas 2:13) and because of repentance that God observed on the part of the wrongdoers.
When the Mosaic law covenant was replaced, capital punishment was not a part of the Christian congregations.
it-1 p. 524 Covenant
New Covenant. Jehovah foretold the new covenant by the prophet Jeremiah in the seventh century B.C.E., stating that it would not be like the Law covenant, which Israel broke. (Jer 31:31-34) On the night before his death, Nisan 14, 33 C.E., when he established the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal, Jesus Christ announced the new covenant, to be validated by his sacrifice. (Lu 22:20) On the 50th day from his resurrection and 10 days after he had ascended to his Father, he poured out the holy spirit, which he had received from Jehovah, on his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem.—Ac 2:1-4, 17, 33; 2Co 3:6, 8, 9; Heb 2:3, 4.It was apostate Christian churches that burned people at the stake if they happened to disagree with the Pope or his/her Majesty.
Elizabeth (1998) - Part 1
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156
Worldly Shunning
by alice.in.wonderland ini hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.
http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.
most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.
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alice.in.wonderland
“Yes, we do have a communication problem. The topic is "Wordly Shunning". Your first post on this extolls the virtues shunning by other faiths with the implication that it's cool for JW's shun based on the GB's interpretation of scripture.
You stated in the past that you are a JW. On this thread, you bragged about associating with DF'd family members. You freely associate with the DF'd members of this forum. Page 2 of this thread quotes your faith's position on dealing with DF'd persons. Everytime you post on a forum such as this or associate with DF'd family is in disobedience to your faith's 'administrators.' You are a hypocrite.”You're pointing the finger at me by drawing on a belief system that in effect brings judgment on yourself. I generally don't do that unless someone else starts the blame game.
Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgment you are judging, you will be judged; and with the measure that you are measuring out, they will measure out to you. Matthew 7:1-2
Drawing on beliefs you reject yourself even makes less sense. Just because you reject something doesn't make you right.
http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-Religion.aspx
The dominant forms of religion in our culture posit a personal god, a Supreme Being, who created the world, is omnipotent and omniscient, imposes moral duties on man, and expects worship. Those who accept this idea have the burden of showing why such a hypothesis is necessary. In this regard, Objectivists are atheists because the arguments for the existence of such a being are not sound. Objectivists reject the existence of God for the same reason they reject the existence of elves, leprechauns, and unicorns: because there is no credible evidence of such beings.
Objectivism regards reason as an absolute. It holds that all knowledge is based on the evidence of the senses. It holds that all beliefs, conclusions, and convictions must be established by logical methods of inquiry and tested by logical methods of verification. In short, it holds that the scientific approach applies to all areas of knowledge. Blind faith, by contrast, consists in belief not based on evidence, or based on such spurious forms of "evidence" as revelation and authority. Faith is essentially an arbitrary exercise of the mind, a willful credulity based on subjective emotions rather than objective evidence, a desire for certainty without the scrupulous cognitive effort required to achieve rational certainty. Faith cannot substitute for reason as a means of knowledge, nor can it supplement reason. Reason is incompatible with arbitrary procedures of any kind.
Objectivism holds that "spiritual values" can be defined in secular terms, and on that basis agrees that they are of vital importance to fulfillment and happiness. Spiritual values are those pertaining to the needs of human consciousness, arising from the human capacity for reason, creativity, free will, and self-awareness. These needs include self-esteem, love, art, and philosophy (a comprehensive view of existence), among others.
On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them. Hebrews 11:1-2
You can find evidence for God that meets the criteria of scientific evidence in Jehovah's Organization. You can't find this in any other religion, that's why many people don't believe God exists. -
156
Worldly Shunning
by alice.in.wonderland ini hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.
http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.
most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.
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alice.in.wonderland
"I'm sure forums that apostates and DF'd persons frequent fall into this category. You are a hypocrite because you are a JW who does not follow the directives of your faith."
It seems we have a communication problem. Are self proclaimed apostates anything other than a social irritant?
This was stated by one of the brightest contributors in the last forum I participated in:
You think wrongly. While most of the world's smartest people are atheists, there is no wisdom to be found in atheism itself. Atheism is just the condition you find yourself in when you recognize that all of the known arguments for gods are specious. However, many atheists have plenty of wisdom, and wherever wisdom can be found, atheists are there, including in churches. Posted by tony62
Not only is there no wisdom in "apostasy," people seem to have left their brain at the Kingdom Hall when they left the building. I can't even engage in an intelligent conversation without someone dumbing down the conversation. Quit being retarded.
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156
Worldly Shunning
by alice.in.wonderland ini hear quite a bit of criticism about jehovah's witnesses enforcing 1 corinthians 5:9-13. while jehovah's witnesses have a formal system of maintaining the organization's core values; egocentric, self-worshiping secularists have an informal system of rejecting those of whom they have nothing in common with.
http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-religion.aspx.
most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods.
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alice.in.wonderland
"I have to agree, you lose alot of credibility coming on a site that you are totally not supposed to and defending things you clearly dont believe in yourself."
Let's clear this up.
lv chap. 5 p. 54 par. 9 How to Keep Separate From the World
Can the spirit of the world take root in your mind and heart? Yes, but only if you let it do so by lowering your guard. (Proverbs 4:23) Its influence often begins subtly, perhaps by way of associates who may appear to be good people but, in fact, have no love for Jehovah. (Proverbs 13:20; 1 Corinthians 15:33) You can also absorb that evil spirit through objectionable literature, pornographic or [apostate Internet sites], unwholesome entertainment, and highly competitive sports—really, through anyone or anything that conveys the thinking of Satan or his system.
rs p. 36 - p. 37 Apostasy
How serious is apostasy?
2 Pet. 2:1: “These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.”Job 13:16: “Before him [God] no apostate will come in.”
Heb. 6:4-6: “It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away [“if they then commit apostasy,” RS], to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.”
For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. Of how much more severe a punishment, do you think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt? For we know him that said: “Vengeance is mine; I will recompense”; and again: “Jehovah will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of [the] living God. Hebrews 10:26-31I can't read minds and hearts and you likewise do not know what I believe aside from what I tell you. If you don't fit this description you're not an apostate.