SweetBabyCheezits

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Posts by SweetBabyCheezits

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  51

  Ghosts and Spirits

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been watching the bio channel lately and hearing people relate their stories of ghosts and the supernatural.. although i think some people do experience demonic presences, i think some people (for whatever reason) find it difficult to move on.

  jws believe everything is caused by "demons," but there are many near death experiences where people clearly seem to see family members who have helped them and who have manifested themselves with feelings of peace and serenity.

  since i don't believe that satan can duplicate these feelings of well being, i was wondering what you think of such manifestations, good or bad.. also, have you ever had any experiences, again, good or bad, in your lives?

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  That can't be explained. But it happened to us.

  From an old thread....

  Strange things can and do happen all the time. But if something unexplainable happens and you assign a supernatural (for example, demons) explanation to it, what you are in effect saying is....

  something unexplainable happened = demons/ghosts/spirits (aka, I can explain it)

  In reality, if something like that cannot be explained it just remains unexplained. Nothing more. Immediately attributing a book falling off a shelf to a spirit before gathering all the facts and eliminating all other plausible explanations reflects a closed, superstitious mind.

  The ancient Babylonians wrote about the symptoms and causes of epilepsy 3000 years ago. They thought that seizures were caused by demons attacking a person.

  Assigning a false presupposition to these symptoms clogged the pipes of progress and it was later necessary to clear away superstitious ideas before moving forward. If only they (and others) had labeled the symptoms as unexplained, the steps to remove prejudice later would've been unnecessary.
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  51

  Ghosts and Spirits

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been watching the bio channel lately and hearing people relate their stories of ghosts and the supernatural.. although i think some people do experience demonic presences, i think some people (for whatever reason) find it difficult to move on.

  jws believe everything is caused by "demons," but there are many near death experiences where people clearly seem to see family members who have helped them and who have manifested themselves with feelings of peace and serenity.

  since i don't believe that satan can duplicate these feelings of well being, i was wondering what you think of such manifestations, good or bad.. also, have you ever had any experiences, again, good or bad, in your lives?

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  I do believe in spirits, why? Because I have seen them on TV and that is good enough for me.

  ML, I'm guessing this is either awesome sarcasm or....

  If not sarcasm, that's a pretty... uh, thin... criteria of testing. Could it be said you also believe in talking animals, killer robots, Smurfs, martians, zombies, the PowerBalance bracelet, politicians' promises, etc? All of those can be seen on TV, right?

  Betting on sarcasm, though.
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  37

  First Elder attempt to hunt me down

  by mamalove in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so got a voice mail from an elder today.

  it has been 15 mos since i attended meetings.

  he just said to call him back.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  I really do not want them to have control over me nor do I want to play by their rules. So my first instinct is to ignore him. What are my options here? I wish they would mind their own business and let me be. Why harp when someone has been gone so long?

  ML, if you really want to fade, I would screen their calls every time. The main reason we failed in our fade was because I made the mistake of opening my front door one day. Prior to that, for months I just didn't answer their phone calls. I would fear a phone call could lead to a JC hearing.

  That said, we have a certain amount of closure now that we're DF'd... some peace... and we are finding it easier to move on with life. Have you considered the possibility of DA'ing? Ask yourself (at the risk of sounding like a Watchtower), "What's holding me back?"
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  64

  Do you feel sorry for the family members who shun you?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as each instance of shunning happens to me, it seems even more ridiculous than the last.. this weekend i took our kids to the park - wife opted out, understandably - and we let our daughter call my parents to inform them we'd be there.

  this was my first time in the presence of my parents since our df announcement two weeks ago.. my mom and dad were 10-20 feet away much of the time and yet they never said a greeting or.. well anything.

  at one point my daughter, who is aware of the shunning, mistakenly thought my mom called my name and shouted excitedly, "mawmaw, were you talking to daddy??

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  As Nightcrawler once said (and this sci-fi quote is for you, zoiks), "I didn't hate them, I pitied them. Do you know why? Because some people will never know anything beyond what they see with their own two eyes."

  SD-7, I remember that - it came from the best in the X-Men series, IMO, which had a heavy anti-prejudice theme throughout. Good point.

  Zarco, you are right about my parents' investment in the org. I figure that plays a major part in my dad's strict obedience.

  I'm like you, Snap... I waver between feeling empathetic and feeling like they are reaping the consequences of surrendering their thinking to the WT. But those feelings vary depending on the family member I'm thinking about. For example, the younger family members, like my wife's JW brother and cousin, just piss me off. Unlike my mom, they have a little better world view and some self-esteem. They've shown arrogance in their words to us so I don't feel sorry for them at all. If they want to sit up on their mountain, so be it. That's how your sister comes across to me (based on your posts).
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  64

  Do you feel sorry for the family members who shun you?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as each instance of shunning happens to me, it seems even more ridiculous than the last.. this weekend i took our kids to the park - wife opted out, understandably - and we let our daughter call my parents to inform them we'd be there.

  this was my first time in the presence of my parents since our df announcement two weeks ago.. my mom and dad were 10-20 feet away much of the time and yet they never said a greeting or.. well anything.

  at one point my daughter, who is aware of the shunning, mistakenly thought my mom called my name and shouted excitedly, "mawmaw, were you talking to daddy??

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  3D1H: "...I cowardly try to fade."

  From my perspective, it isn't cowardly to fade at all.

  WWW, your Mom's experience is exactly what I wish to avoid for my own mother... Very sad. And yet I expect something similar will happen if the shunning continues.

  WasBlind, I totally agree and I think that's a big reason I feel sorry for my mom.
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  64

  Do you feel sorry for the family members who shun you?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as each instance of shunning happens to me, it seems even more ridiculous than the last.. this weekend i took our kids to the park - wife opted out, understandably - and we let our daughter call my parents to inform them we'd be there.

  this was my first time in the presence of my parents since our df announcement two weeks ago.. my mom and dad were 10-20 feet away much of the time and yet they never said a greeting or.. well anything.

  at one point my daughter, who is aware of the shunning, mistakenly thought my mom called my name and shouted excitedly, "mawmaw, were you talking to daddy??

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  I'm not trying to make excuses for my mom but I see her as truly incapacitated by the WT and my dad. She wants to be loyal to god and thinks that means being submissive to Dad and the WT. She has very low self-esteem and doesn't think she's capable of trusting herself. (Always quoting Jer. 17:9 about how the 'heart is treacherous'.... therefore cannot be trusted. Another reason I see the bible as being a precursor to the WT: so heavy on control tactics.)

  My dad wanted to start shunning us when we stopped going to meetings but my mom couldn't do it. She would sometimes sneak an email to me or call. The last week prior to our DF'ing she called almost every day to tell me she loved me. Apparently it created a lot of stress in their marriage. Honestly, I think if Dad was ok with it, she would at least say hello and give me a hug even now that we're DFd because she KNOWS I'll never go back.

  Having said that, you guys make some excellent points I hadn't considered. It's great to get other perspectives here!

  TM, I thought about trying what you suggested at the top of the page. If that doesn't work, I may have to cut them off from the kids completely. Then they can choose between acting civilized or not seeing their grandchildren.

  Might just use some of the comments here in an email to them:

  Gladiator: "...associating with you and the grandchildren is compromising their belief that people who no longer follow the Watchtower bible & tract society are bad." '...ignoring us in front of the children is damaging to the children. It undermines our authority as parents.'

  Scully: "Shunning behaviour disrespects you - would you allow anyone else to disrespect you in your child's presence?"

  Thanks to everyone for your viewpoints.
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  24

  Who can I count on during the tribulation?

  by GrandmaJones in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tonight it occurred to me that i really don't have any friends.

  i have people i am acquainted with, people who i really only know slightly.

  in the past few weeks, i know more about lady lee, brotherdan, leolaia (even if i can't spell it!

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  *I'm sorry, Grandma, don't mean to hijack....*

  WB, I appreciate the sentiment but this guy's non-christ-like traits are much more plentiful than the others. Unfortunately, personal experience can expose even an insensitive guy's empathy. Seriously, who wouldn't be moved by Grandma?? Even her screen name makes me think of, well, my grandma.

  As far as qualifications for being a christian, well, I lost faith in the bible a couple years after losing faith in the WT. I still admire much of how Jesus was portrayed in the NT but my lack of faith in the bible itself (among other things) prevents me from putting any faith in him as a deity. (Right now, trying to personally determine if it's possible to be a decent person without any hope for reward or fear of punishment. We'll see. )

  *we now return you to your regularly scheduled program...*
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  64

  Do you feel sorry for the family members who shun you?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as each instance of shunning happens to me, it seems even more ridiculous than the last.. this weekend i took our kids to the park - wife opted out, understandably - and we let our daughter call my parents to inform them we'd be there.

  this was my first time in the presence of my parents since our df announcement two weeks ago.. my mom and dad were 10-20 feet away much of the time and yet they never said a greeting or.. well anything.

  at one point my daughter, who is aware of the shunning, mistakenly thought my mom called my name and shouted excitedly, "mawmaw, were you talking to daddy??

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  I'm not disagreeing completely, but it's not always about self-preservation... not for everyone. My mother has been led to believe this is the best treatment to help "save" her son's life (and that of his family). This might help us "wake up"... in her opinion. I have no doubt she'd give up eternal life if it meant the four of us could be "in paradise." It is not selfishness in her case and that leads me to believe such may be true for others as well.

  I realize some of you have hateful, unloving JW family members and I'm not trying to minimize their actions/attitudes. I also totally respect your view of your family, which is why I asked. But I hate to see prejudice regarding all JWs.
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  64

  Do you feel sorry for the family members who shun you?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as each instance of shunning happens to me, it seems even more ridiculous than the last.. this weekend i took our kids to the park - wife opted out, understandably - and we let our daughter call my parents to inform them we'd be there.

  this was my first time in the presence of my parents since our df announcement two weeks ago.. my mom and dad were 10-20 feet away much of the time and yet they never said a greeting or.. well anything.

  at one point my daughter, who is aware of the shunning, mistakenly thought my mom called my name and shouted excitedly, "mawmaw, were you talking to daddy??

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Thx, Tammy. BTW, I think sometimes my wife would appreciate me giving her the silent treatment.

  Outlaw, I feel that way about some of my family... my dad to a degree, because he seems to want to be J Freakin Rutherford.... but my mom, no. It's not black and white to me. That's one of the reasons I hated the Society - so much WAS black and white to them. This is just another case where I see varying shades and my suffering mother is among the more pure-hearted innocent victims.
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  24

  Who can I count on during the tribulation?

  by GrandmaJones in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tonight it occurred to me that i really don't have any friends.

  i have people i am acquainted with, people who i really only know slightly.

  in the past few weeks, i know more about lady lee, brotherdan, leolaia (even if i can't spell it!

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  That's really sad, GJ. I'm sorry you have to experience that lack of love.

  I'm not a Christian, per se, but I'm with you GrandmaJones. You can be a part of our family - we've had some recent openings in the 60+ age bracket.

  Got plans for Thanksgiving??