SweetBabyCheezits

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Posts by SweetBabyCheezits

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  503

  Steven Unthank: What do we really know?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i'm gonna play the skeptic today on a topic that is painful for a lot of people on this forum.

  my intent is not to stir anything up but to make sure facts are confirmed.

  bear in mind, i'm sickened by the wt's role (and the heirarchy down to elders) in child molestation cover-ups.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Did anyone on JWN contribute funds to the cause?
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  134

  WTF? Steven Untank's money accounts suddenly closed!!

  by mind blown in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this is weird?!

  i just came accross this on mr unthank's personal site: http://stevenunthank.wordpress.com/monies/i recently read something where the wts is, let's just say connected, to various institutions/companies to wield/get their way.....is this one or just coincidence?

  moniespersonal message from steven unthank.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  I think someone is trying to pull the wool over JWN's eyes.
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  503

  Steven Unthank: What do we really know?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i'm gonna play the skeptic today on a topic that is painful for a lot of people on this forum.

  my intent is not to stir anything up but to make sure facts are confirmed.

  bear in mind, i'm sickened by the wt's role (and the heirarchy down to elders) in child molestation cover-ups.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  MB: He wouldn't have done it without the parent permission.

  MindBlown, it seems you know Steven Unthank pretty well. May I respectfully ask how you came to be familiar with him and his plight?

  MB: If yougo to his site, you will see his art work. His art is so amazing, a couple look more like real life photos then paintings.

  Yes, I visited his Art/Photography page and saw the seven images that he has on display. And you are right about the paintings and drawings that "look more like real life photos than paintings." Why they're almost indistinguishable from digital photos that have had a photoshop filter applied! Amazing indeed. Meanwhile, Brian Scott's colored pencil drawing of the crying girl looks less like a "real life photo" and more like an excellent hand drawing.

  MB: Could it possibly be that Brian Scott just so happened to have painted one of the child abuse victims?

  Of course that is a possibility. And as long as we're basing our reason on conjecture, it is also a possibility that both Brian Scott and Steven Unthank made two different drawings of two different girls who happen to look exactly alike. But it's not likely.

  Shack: Wow. I too only have a surface level awareness of this case, but the Six Screens appearance and now that pic cast a dubious shadow over it all. ....According to Brian Scott's website, his drawing was posted Sept. 5 2010. But Steven Unthank's post today on his website describes that photo as "the above pencil drawing is an image of a young child in the Traralgon Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses who was recently raped..." Doesn't add up...

  Good points, Shack. The supposed conspiracy of his frozen PayPal account also raises some major questions in my mind. I'd like to see some accounting of the donations he received.

  This whole thing carries a very similar feel to an elaborate hoax that was perpetrated against my hometown years ago. There were parts of the hoax that were legit enough so that the con man could demonstrate some sort of public record.... but following that, it was pure BS. This young guy fooled the whole town, including news reporters at local stations and the Gazette. He met with the Chamber of Commerce and claimed he was the CEO of a company that would construct and operate a massive data center in our town. It was going to bring hundreds of jobs - a real boon to the local economy. Everyone bought it. There was tremendous buzz about him and his company. After all, he had an authentic website that described his business operations and he even had his business listed on a reputable IT company's site (Cisco, if I recall correctly). That lended him some credence but it turns out that wasn't so hard to do. So he made the news on every channel. But long-story-short, it turned out he was a twentysomething loser who was still living with his parents in a nearby town. The whole thing was a hoax and everyone bought it. This was one of those rare occasions where Occam's Razor didn't apply.

  I'm not saying Steven Unthank is a complete fraud but I would certainly like to see more information from the court system about his involvement in the prosecution.
• 
  503

  Steven Unthank: What do we really know?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i'm gonna play the skeptic today on a topic that is painful for a lot of people on this forum.

  my intent is not to stir anything up but to make sure facts are confirmed.

  bear in mind, i'm sickened by the wt's role (and the heirarchy down to elders) in child molestation cover-ups.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  I strongly believe that the picture was put out there as 'extra drama'.

  Extra drama? The real circumstances surrounding WT-pedophile-coverups are dramatic enough. If he wanted to call it an artist's conception of what a victim's emotional pain, that's fine. But why claim it's one of the victims? Does it not affect one's credibility if he stretches the truth? That is unnecessary and could be a discredit to former JWs in general. The WT provides more then enough rope to hang itself. Embellishing the facts may be damaging to a real cause.
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  503

  Steven Unthank: What do we really know?

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i'm gonna play the skeptic today on a topic that is painful for a lot of people on this forum.

  my intent is not to stir anything up but to make sure facts are confirmed.

  bear in mind, i'm sickened by the wt's role (and the heirarchy down to elders) in child molestation cover-ups.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Hi, everyone. I'm gonna play the skeptic today on a topic that is painful for a lot of people on this forum. My intent is not to stir anything up but to make sure facts are confirmed. Bear in mind, I'm sickened by the WT's role (and the heirarchy down to elders) in child molestation cover-ups. Personal friends have been affected by this and I wish those responsible would be held accountable. I would love to see the WTBTS fall under the microscope of a real prosecutor and laid to waste. But my questions are specifically in regard to Steven Unthank.

  I've not really been keeping up with these threads so this might just reflect sheer ignorance on my part. But I just skimmed a couple this morning and I'm just curious if there are any goverment websites that provide details or a summary of the case or charges made? I've seen lots of emotional thread titles here on JWN and links to stevenunthank.com and mentions of Steven Unthank on virtually every exjw site imaginable. I've also seen mention of Steven Unthank on a couple of news sites (ie, Herald Sun). What I cannot find is a .gov site that mentions any of the cases listed. And maybe that's to be expected. I just don't know. (Googled using advanced search for any hits on ".gov" site for "Steven Unthank" ... also tried another search using one of the case numbers.)

  At any rate, the latest update from Steven includes, supposedly, a portrait of one of the victims with an emotionally stirring caption:

  

  "The above pencil drawing is an image of a young child in the Traralgon Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses that was recently raped by a fellow member of the church."

  Hang on a sec... why would he publicly post an image of one of the victims? Something's amiss.

  Using Google's "search by image" feature returns a link to the following artist's portfolio:

  http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/1-brian-scott.html?page=4

  This is the work of a UK artist named Brian Scott. Anyways, I just sent an email to Brian to see if he could verify whether the story that's being attached to his artwork is legit or not. Maybe Brian knew the child and got permission to create her portrait and post it on his site alongside all the other faces. But this carries the tone of some hoax emails that float around in which the image and the story do not belong together. If the image doesn't go with the story, that is a discredit to Steven Unthank - regardless of how much else is accurate - and hurts former JWs who have a genuine interest in justice being meted out.

  Steven Unthank may be the real deal but I'm looking for verification from someone involved in the case on the goverment's side regarding the proceedings. Any suggestions?
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  86

  Christian Atheists, why did you throw the baby out with the bath water?

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "i contend that we are both atheists.

  i just believe in one fewer god than you do.

  when you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why i dismiss yours.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  I am an equal opportunity rejector.
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  47

  The Real God: An Epiphany (YouTube)

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my apologies if this video has already been posted at some point in the past.

  only recently did i become aware of this particular video.

  the opinions of the author are expressed in a way that was new to me.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  There are many people that understand or have Sympathy/empathy. There are many others (a lot of many that I have met) who do NOT. My question is how did you learn ...sympathy/empathy vs those that did NOT?

  That's a good question and one reason I've been going through psychology lectures on iTunes U. I'd like to get a better understanding of the epistemology of empathy and other values from a scientific perspective instead of just blindly speculating.

  and out of what do these sympathetic and empathetic responses come from? the Mind? the Heart? Most people would use expressions such as 'have a heart' indicative of their sympathy residing in their heart. But how did it get acquired in the heart?

  Are you speaking metaphorically here? The heart is a muscle that pumps blood. Even the WTBTS dropped the "heart is the seat of emotion" myth. Emotional response originates in the brain. According to this Columbia University study,

  "empathically accurate, as compared to inaccurate, judgments depended on 1) structures within the human mirror neuron system thought to be involved in shared sensorimotor representations, and 2) regions implicated in mental state attribution – the superior temporal sulcus and medial prefrontal cortex (MPFC)."

  But I'm no neuroscientist so I'm taking their word on it for now. Naive, I know. How about you?

  how was it learned? Even society itself learned. Why is it that SOME people have this, versus others that do not, regardless of their social status or education.

  Why have rats been found to demonstrate empathic behavior?

  Is it possible that sympathy and empathy were infact not created by societal structure or education? The poorest humble man that lives in the middle of the cambodia, can have sympathy/empathy but lack complete soceital connection (sympathy towards watching a tortured animal, lets say) or even the basic foundation of education.

  Nobody is claiming empathy and sympathy are the result of society or education only, chief. I pointed out that a *combination* of empathy and education can lead to morally/ethically stronger actions. Conversely, a volatile mixture of ignorance and lack of empathy can promote thinking that leads to immoral/unethical actions. Think Holocaust.

  But neither of those things did Einstein explain that is HOW does one achieve SYMPATHY/EMPATHY that he contributes to being morals? He only expressed that a man should be based ON sympathy.

  First of all, Einstein was touching on philosophy here, not digging deep into evolutionary psychology. He was just defending science from attacks of ignorance. But I felt it was a sufficient answer to your question was "by what method are you aware of when you'e doing something 'morally correct and/or incorrect?"

  It's much more difficult to quantify when one's morals aren't based on black and white thinking of bronze age goat-herders. That said, I tend to feel like I'm doing something "morally correct or incorrect" when I boil my act (or failure to act) down to fundamental principles and apply empathy. Is it possible that my judgment could be compromised so that, despite using the above self-check, I may justify actions that are unethical or immoral? Absolutely. That's also an inherent part of human psychology - the ability to decieve ourselves.

  What caused you to believe in what is considered 'good morals' vs 'bad morals' prior to Einstein? You agreed with him. But what initiated it in YOU?

  Again, no simple answer but I believe evolutionary psychology is a good start. That said, I'll tell what caused me to hold to an especially ugly set of morals at one time: the belief that an ancient book should be considered the gold standard of morality. When I took that view of the Bible, I was a prejudiced bigot. I've since educated myself a little better and applied some empathy so now, for example, I no longer think wives should be in subjection to their husbands or that homosexuals are deserving of divine retribution.

  Einstein was an intelligent man, but lets not make the mistake that the 'ego-god centered christians' make by looking up to Paul in the bible as a source of all their answers, forgetting the whole 'do not follow men' and become independant thinkers, thing. Accept TRUTH from Einstein, but never fall within the snare of accepting ALL said things AS truth by him, or anyone else.

  Fret not, darling. I stashed away his quote because I happened to think the same well before I read his view, not because I worship him or take him for a messiah. He just put it more eloquently than I could.

  Thankfully, I have freedom of thought which means I can adopt any ideas that make sense to me and reject ones that don't.

  Speaking of which, the latter half of the third paragraph in your post #304 just comes across as one long platitude. I'm not sure how to reply to that.
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  47

  The Real God: An Epiphany (YouTube)

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my apologies if this video has already been posted at some point in the past.

  only recently did i become aware of this particular video.

  the opinions of the author are expressed in a way that was new to me.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Voices: i'll answer this once you answer "by what method are you aware of when you'e doing something 'morally correct and/or incorrect?' "

  As to morals, I tend to agree with Einstein: sympathy/empathy, which are not unlike the golden rule, should be one of the largest driving factors.

  "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. …Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Einstein

  So now for your answer to LWT: "In your opinion, what method does God use to reach the people he intends to save?"
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  36

  Confirmation bias as observed in brain scans

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought this was an interesting study, considering the mental block that affects jws when discussing wt flip-flops or bible contradictions.. .

  http://www.michaelshermer.com/2006/07/the-political-brain/.

  a recent brain-imaging study shows that our political predilections are a product of unconscious confirmation biasthe human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion ... draws all things else to support and agree with it.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Just to clarify, fMRI is different from a standard MRI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_magnetic_resonance_imaging
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  36

  Confirmation bias as observed in brain scans

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought this was an interesting study, considering the mental block that affects jws when discussing wt flip-flops or bible contradictions.. .

  http://www.michaelshermer.com/2006/07/the-political-brain/.

  a recent brain-imaging study shows that our political predilections are a product of unconscious confirmation biasthe human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion ... draws all things else to support and agree with it.

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Beks: Let me see your hand

  Haha, hey, Beks! How goes it??

  Yeah, the comparison of neuroscience to foretune-telling made me think of Clarke's third law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.