.
sure i get frustrated when i have to explain for the bajillionth time just why atheism is not a belief or why it is possible to know some things with 100% certainty but despite all the exasperations i still count it as one of the rewards of freeing my mind and exiting the wt that i can argue so endlessly and freely.. even if some of you do get on my tits sometimes .
nic'.
I'm with StoneWall. Logic, FTW!
I'm eager to hear any new perspective from any side of the debate, so long as it's logical. I just downloaded the Hitchens (Atheist) vs Craig (Creationist) debate video filmed at Biola U. Plan on watching with an open mind, though I've been sitting in Agnostic-Atheist territory for a while now.
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my third attempt on this great video:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/entertainment/198774/1/any-thoughts-on-getting-comments-on-a-music-video.
Grew up on Van Halen & Hagar. I enjoyed em both.
I liked Gary Cherone in Extreme but didn't care for his work with the VH bros.
i hate to ask you good folks to jump around but the first post in the thread below explains why i'm going into the jc meeting, hence the basis for my questions below.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198636/1/reply-to-judicial-committee-question-thenoblelodge.
i have no idea how to present my witnesses.
they've already agreed to show up.
How can you come out of a Judicial and not be told the verdict?
Are they not supposed to tell you at the end what they have decided?
Hobo, they were deliberating and we were waiting outside. Something came up and we were sent home with the understanding that they would have to take more time to discuss. I'll explain what that "something" was, along with all the other details, in the new post (which I've been working on all day).
Sorry for the delay but I want to make a detailed, accurate record for others. I keep having to wrangle the kiddos and grill supper and do other odds & ends.
i hate to ask you good folks to jump around but the first post in the thread below explains why i'm going into the jc meeting, hence the basis for my questions below.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198636/1/reply-to-judicial-committee-question-thenoblelodge.
i have no idea how to present my witnesses.
they've already agreed to show up.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: going to a JC thinking you can influence anything is a waste of time. A TOTAL waste of time.
daringhart13, first of all, had you read the first page of the thread, you'd understand that I didn't go into this with the expectations of winning a not-guilty verdict. There was a different reason for attending but I expected to be disfellowshiped. (Yet, curiously, wasn't... for the time being.)
They won't let you say or do anything.....and it they don't like something you say or do, they can just cut it short and DF you.....
Second, they actually allowed me to bring in one witness for his testimony, though I didn't really expect that either. (I'm learning every day to try to temper otherwise dogmatic comments with "most likely" or "probably". Speaking in absolutes has bitten me in the ass too much in the past. And when you speak in absolutes based on limited experience and, by some crazy chance end up being wrong, it tends to chip away at your trustworthiness.)
Third, based on your comments, you seem as guilty of prejudice as the next bigot burning a Koran. I don't care if it's for or against JWs, Muslims, Jews.... I'm not a fan of comments that generalize or stereotype without exception. Just because you and some of your fellow elders were assholes doesn't mean they all are. Your demanding ignorance gives apostates a bad name.
(FTR, I feel the same way when some folks on here call JWs "witlesses". There are scores of intelligent JWs that are "still in" but whose reasoning has been compromised by their faith. Some of these will eventually leave, others won't. Plus, the term "witlesses" wasn't funny the first time, much less the nine hundredth... but that's just my opinion.)
These are not PRO-JW comments. I just got off the phone arguing with my own JW mother who makes hasty generalizations of all other religions, which I see as prejudice. I'd like to think that JWs who leave the org are a little better-equipped to reason with their newfound freedom of thought. If a thinking JW gets on here to see what exJWs have to say and finds exaggerations/misinformation rampant, it will be counter-effective.
Just a thought. I'll stop ranting now.
i hate to ask you good folks to jump around but the first post in the thread below explains why i'm going into the jc meeting, hence the basis for my questions below.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198636/1/reply-to-judicial-committee-question-thenoblelodge.
i have no idea how to present my witnesses.
they've already agreed to show up.
I'm still writing up my experience in another tab but I did want to emphasize one thing: I was treated with respect and dignity by all of the elders. I've known four of them since childhood. Sure, there were a couple of ridiculous comments used to make me sound like a blind, Satan-directed apostate but I understand their intent.
The four I've known all my life, they're good men, and I sincerely feel pity for them. This was no lynch mob. The fact that they are sincere and truly care about us makes it that much more painful. Had they been arrogant, it would be easy.
my lord spoke to me for the first time yesterday and this morning he told me to post my experience.. i know there are going to be ones who will call me names and thats ok. i will accept whatever you feel you need to say.. here goes.
i heard a voice calling ''my child'', this happened while at the zoo so i was taken off guard!
i replied ''who is this?
SBC: Jeheshua-whoever is too smarmy for my tastes.
AG: Then, by all means, refrain. Neither I nor my Lord would like you to use... or call upon... a name that doesn't suit YOU.
SBC: I like my mythological gods to be more barbaric and jealous, like Yahweh.
AG: To each his own, I always say.
Is it just coincidence that sarcasm seems to be wasted on the ones who take so many bible passages literally? Probably.
Right now, I'm just not happy with how a "holy book" is being used to validate the segregation of my family. What disturbs me most is probably that they CAN interpret it however they like to fit whatever they want. ("Jesus foretold that the truth would divide families!") And not just JWs but ANYONE who uses it. And then they can claim only THEY have the right understanding because god saw fit to endow them with holy spirit. That such a thing is even possible makes me seriously question why a real god would convey important instructions in a book penned by men, and passed down as it was.
If I don't believe god spoke to bible writers, I'm certainly not going to patronize anyone who claims god literally speaks to him/her in modern times. If someone told me his dog could recite the sonnets of ol' Bill Shakespeare, I'd be skeptical and probably call him out (with little tact), simply for trying to sell me a load of bull. Perhaps that isn't PC. Maybe I'll mellow with time.
i hate to ask you good folks to jump around but the first post in the thread below explains why i'm going into the jc meeting, hence the basis for my questions below.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198636/1/reply-to-judicial-committee-question-thenoblelodge.
i have no idea how to present my witnesses.
they've already agreed to show up.
Hahaha... CJ, I've got a 2.5 hr MP4 on my iphone from the meeting. Unfortunately, there's an issue with long iPhone VoiceMemo's - they tend to corrupt. (Or was it holy spirit? Haha. No, silly believer, it was Steve Jobs.)
But even THAT wasn't my epic fail. More to come....
i hate to ask you good folks to jump around but the first post in the thread below explains why i'm going into the jc meeting, hence the basis for my questions below.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198636/1/reply-to-judicial-committee-question-thenoblelodge.
i have no idea how to present my witnesses.
they've already agreed to show up.
Hi, everyone, thanks for the messages of concern and I apologize for leaving you hanging. After our JC, we did some things yesterday to get our minds off the whole situation and de-stress a bit.
I'll start a new thread with my report of all that happened and will drop a link to the new thread on here as soon as possible.
As of right now, we still don't know the verdict but there were some surprises we didn't expect, including an epic FAIL in my attempt to record the whole hearing.
Details to come shortly. Stay classy, San Diego.
i hate to ask you good folks to jump around but the first post in the thread below explains why i'm going into the jc meeting, hence the basis for my questions below.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198636/1/reply-to-judicial-committee-question-thenoblelodge.
i have no idea how to present my witnesses.
they've already agreed to show up.
Bethel, you've pretty much nailed our circumstances. We're probably going to walk in and and recite the phrase "we have doubts" in response to EVERY question, including the "do you think this is God's org" bullet. We're going to see where that takes us.
I think you're right, though.... my wife should at least have reason to appeal considering her first conversation with the elders regarding doubts were when the thought-police showed up. One warning, per se, and then the only clarification that she was being charged was from a phone call that I initiated TODAY.
i hate to ask you good folks to jump around but the first post in the thread below explains why i'm going into the jc meeting, hence the basis for my questions below.... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198636/1/reply-to-judicial-committee-question-thenoblelodge.
i have no idea how to present my witnesses.
they've already agreed to show up.
OTWO, it will be more hassle than I care for but I've already got my witnesses showing up this evening and I'm really doing all of this for them. Worst case scenario, we get DF'd sooner than the wedding date, we still get to attend the wedding (albeit awkwardly) but not the reception.
At least the circus will be behind us. I've had enough of the harrassment from well-meaning family to last a lifetime. Ready to start living a reality instead of a dream.
