Posts by SweetBabyCheezits

37

For those who still trust the bible as infallible....

by SweetBabyCheezits in

at what age did you start accepting that the bible was from god?.

SweetBabyCheezits

SBC: Is it safe to say your parents, community, or environment influenced you to accept the bible as a child?

DD: No. That's my point. At least for me, as a child those things were questioned openly from many differing view points.

Okay. Not saying you're evading the question, I'm just foggy on what that means. (Brain cloud, per se.)

So did your parents ever take you to a place of worship of any sort as a child? Or am I to understand your family was non-religious? Did they have and encourage the study of multiple holy books such as the Bible, Koran, Talmud, etc.. equally? Or were they predominately Christian... but you could ask questions without concern?

If there was absolutely no bias there, fantastic! Even better reason to pick your brain. But I want to make sure that's the case first.

149

NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

SweetBabyCheezits

MJW, my "instincts" tell me, grim though it may seem when one previously entertained dreams of everlasting paradise, that my sentience is temporary. My "instincts" tell me to have some share in leaving the earth a little better place. My "instincts" tell me to raise my kids to be good people and encourage them to leave the earth a little better than they found it, too.

If I fall asleep and dream that my family and I have retired to Ouray, Colorado, I may wake up somewhat disappointed. But the fact that I'm now aware it was just a dream curbs my desire to persist in that delusion.

149

NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

SweetBabyCheezits

SW, if you are a Science buff, and STUDY their articles on "Nature", you will quickly see billions of cells, made of
countless billions of molecules,made of countless trillions of atoms,made of countless trillions and more trillions of sub-atomic particles...All arrangedto co-operate together in systems- muscles, skeletons, organs,
nervous systems, etc, and designed in a manner allowing them to exist in different environments.
Thus, all living things are complex beyond full comprehension, and screams the fact we have a Maker!

MJW, I do see your logic and I used to share it. I don't claim to have a good understanding of science (working on it) and, based on your comments, neither do you.... so putting that aside, let's just look at the logic:

"all living things are complex beyond full comprehension, and screams the fact we have a Maker!"

This is an argument of "special pleading." If you are relying solely on logic and not presupposition to reach this point, you must then ask:

If, as a rule of logic, all living things are so complex that they MUST have had a Maker, where did that Maker come from?
Or if you can accept that an incomprehensibly complex spirit did not need a designer, why could you not say the same for the incomprehensibly complex universe?

Again, you're argument above is based on logic. That being the case, you can't switch over to faith at this point.

149

NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

SweetBabyCheezits

Became a JW at 19- t'was a Catholic before that...

Interesting... not raised as a JW. How old are you now?

149

NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

SweetBabyCheezits

I'm a human not an animal. My "instincts" are my convictions. I first believed what I'd been led to believe - paradise and everlasting life. Had my parents been Baptist, I would've "instinctinvely" believed in heaven.

Now my "instincts" are based on logic and reason, a personal unbiased search for truth. Those "instincts" tell me that certainty is ridiculous.

149

NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

SweetBabyCheezits

You became a JW as an adult? Or when? What faith before that?

37

For those who still trust the bible as infallible....

by SweetBabyCheezits in

at what age did you start accepting that the bible was from god?.

SweetBabyCheezits

DD, it's not relevant to this chain of logic or analysis of stats at this point because I'm trying to isolate when bias towards belief in the bible as the only holy book first took place.

Is it safe to say your parents, community, or environment influenced you to accept the bible as a child?

149

NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

SweetBabyCheezits

MadJW, I arrived at this conclusion based on a review of the FACTS after I removed presuppositions I inherited as a child. You?

149

NOW how do you view the Future?

by theMadJW in

jw
friends

casting aside what little you learned about god and christ- are you thrilled with the future of mankind?.

SweetBabyCheezits

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan

If you're specifically asking about an afterlife, I don't base my beliefs on which hope is most beautiful. If you do, then you should highly suspect self-deception. After all, why would anyone choose to believe this over everlasting paradise?

That said, I expect my condition at death to be no different than the eons of time before I was born.

37

For those who still trust the bible as infallible....

by SweetBabyCheezits in

at what age did you start accepting that the bible was from god?.

SweetBabyCheezits

Okay, people, hold up. Dang.

I see the fish aren't biting today so I'll be transparent: I'm trying to begin a chain of logic without setting off faith-defense systems.

For clarity's sake, I'd like to define the group I addressed earlier ("... those who believe some divine entity caused the bible to be written...") as Group X.

I suspect many of us from Group X - not all, but many - would have to honestly answer that we started accepting this concept as a child, whether raised as JWs or other Christian denomination. I'd like to define this category of good people as Group X1. Whether those of us in Group X1 truly understood the concept at that age is not particularly relevant at this moment.

Group X1 adopted the presupposition that the bible was from god at an early age. Maybe our parents were also from Group X1. The bias was there before we could judge it impartially.

It's likely we left the organization, realizing that we were blinded by ignorance and our own foregone conclusions. Do we not, then, owe it to ourselves to put aside all faith-based bias that we inherited as kids (including but not limited to the bible) so that we can impartially reason on it? Why do some in Group X1 not return to ground zero to start over with a clean slate and seek truth from there?

I'm interested in hearing the answers to these questions. I'd like the input of folks in Group X1 who recognize themselves as such. (I am one.)

I've been sarcastic in the past but I promise to respect your position on this thread. I may follow up with questions that come across as questioning your faith but my goal is certainly not to offend here.