Hi, Freydo. Thanks for your contribution to the thread but that's a pretty bold opinion to put out there without stating your reason behind it. Care to expand?
SweetBabyCheezits
JoinedPosts by SweetBabyCheezits
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36
From hard core JW Christian to Atheist within 5 months?
by cyberjesus ini found this video and it summarizes it very simple.
i hope you enjoy it.
life is too short to waste it on fairy tales.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0wwzc-vz7y&feature=related.
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36
From hard core JW Christian to Atheist within 5 months?
by cyberjesus ini found this video and it summarizes it very simple.
i hope you enjoy it.
life is too short to waste it on fairy tales.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0wwzc-vz7y&feature=related.
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SweetBabyCheezits
SBC: Again, even a "hard core" extremist atheist like Dawkins
CJ: There is no extremist atheist. The same way you can not be an extremist Santa-Claus non believer. you either believe he exist, or are not sure, or just dont.
Just to clarify, my use of "hard core extremist" was mainly to reflect some Christians' perspective of Dawkins being a "militant atheist" and whatnot, I just failed to include "extremist" in my quotation marks. That's my bad.
Having said that, while I don't agree with hasty generalization, I do agree with PSac that there are varying degrees of assertiveness in most ,if not all, belief systems. For atheists, some are more reserved while others are dogmatic and outspoken. That goes for religionists as well, obviously.
Still, to me these are two very different statements:
"God does NOT exist."
VS
"I do not personally see sufficient evidence to believe in god."
My point is that not all atheists are equally dogmatic and not all Christians condemn all nonbelievers to hell... so generalization should be avoided.
But, like CJ said, there are many misconceptions about atheists. This is, in part, due to religious propaganda regarding science, evolution, and atheism. It reminds me of the old days when a householder insisted that we (JWs) didn't believe in Jesus AT ALL. That was a misconception. JWs believed in Jesus, just not in the sense that the householder did.
CJ: lets say you eat a chile. if we are going to quantify the level of hotness in your mouth. you can be alittle hot, or very hot, or extremely hot. but if you dont eat the chile, you are just not hot at all. you can never be Extremely not hot. Anything below zero hot is the same.
CJ, I get what you're saying but I might use a different illustration. Temperature is an analog signal with degrees vary from the hottest to the coldest. Eat a popsicle and your mouth will be cold.
With temperature, you have to define some kind of setpoint value before you can quantify extreme deviations. That's why I say extremes are relative to our own personal belief. We see our own belief as the setpoint and other beliefs as x degrees deviation from normal, and when we change our beliefs, we thereby change our perceived normal/setpoint. It's all perspective.
This is such an abstract measurement, is it really possible to nail down an absolute means of quantification?
Belief in a god = 100%
Unsure = 50%
No belief in a god = 0%
or
Belief in Yahweh = far left
No belief in god(s) = middle
Belief in Allah = far right
I don't know. Ultimately, I feel that an absence of belief in god is neutral "worldview" ground but I also acknowledge the varying degrees of assertiveness within that group.
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36
From hard core JW Christian to Atheist within 5 months?
by cyberjesus ini found this video and it summarizes it very simple.
i hope you enjoy it.
life is too short to waste it on fairy tales.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0wwzc-vz7y&feature=related.
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SweetBabyCheezits
Psac, we're both going to be biased towards our own viewpoints, right? I think you're still generalizing atheists (unless you're basing your comment on a specific person whom you know well). I know many who are more like this...
I don't have enough evidence for a personal god and I now realize that my old perspective was based on presupposition that [insert holy book] was from a personal god. Now that I've abandoned my presuppositions in a search for unbiased truth, I see that the traditional gods worshiped by modern organized religion are as unsubstantiated as Thor and Baal. It's crazy that I once accepted [holy book] at face value but I realize it's due to my environment as a child. It's the same reason that radical [insert faith-based terrorist group] blow themselves up. Why do others fail to consider that? Why do otherwise rational adults still believe in a talking snake and a global flood and a virgin birth without question?
These are two distinctly different statements:
"There is no god."
"I do not personally see sufficient evidence to believe in god."
Either statement can indicate an atheistic perspective (and atheist views are not limited to these two statements). Don't assume all take the stance of the first statement any more than you assume all Muslims are terrorists.
At any rate, I feel like extremes are defined by actions not words. I don't hear about many atheist extremists blowing themselves up in open air markets. So if atheism in iteself is an extreme, what would you call radical [insert religious group] terrorists? Are they equal? More extreme? Most extreme? I thought extreme was on the farthest ends of the spectrum. How do you go beyond extreme?
I realize you're saying that a hardcore JW is extreme by saying his religion is right and everyone else is wrong. I honestly wouldn't consider that extreme in itself. That seems to be par for the course with most religions today, does it not? Southern Baptists traditionally believe that those who don't accept Jesus into their hearts are going to hell. Is that extreme?
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36
From hard core JW Christian to Atheist within 5 months?
by cyberjesus ini found this video and it summarizes it very simple.
i hope you enjoy it.
life is too short to waste it on fairy tales.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0wwzc-vz7y&feature=related.
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SweetBabyCheezits
PSac, is it "extreme" for you to say that you don't believe in the LochNess Monster?
Suppose you said, "Hey, I don't have any verifiable evidence that Nessie exists, so until some becomes available, I can't simply buy into tabloid and anecdotal claims." Is that extreme?
Maybe you took it a bit further, though, because Nessie-Worshipers were trying to have Nessie put in science books and they were influencing the government with Nessie-based agendas... maybe the more aggressive Nessie-Worshipers became, the more vocal you became that we shouldn't lose our heads about Nessie when we still don't have more than a fuzzy picture and personal experiences. Is that extreme?
Like I said, I think it's all about perspective.
Psac: I am a christian and I believe in God...nevertheless I do NOT beleive that those that are not christians and do not believe in God are wrong, period, end of discussion.
You are unique, my friend. I take it you don't believe in the flood and hundreds of other bible accounts then?
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36
From hard core JW Christian to Atheist within 5 months?
by cyberjesus ini found this video and it summarizes it very simple.
i hope you enjoy it.
life is too short to waste it on fairy tales.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0wwzc-vz7y&feature=related.
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SweetBabyCheezits
I think you're making a hasty generalization, PSac. If an atheist is such because he is first and foremost a scientist, then his adherence to critical thinking and the scientific method would REQUIRE him to have an open mind. That simply means if real evidence for god is presented, the critical thinker will accept it.
Again, even a "hard core" extremist atheist like Dawkins leaves a minimal possibility for a god based on what he doesn't know. In The God Delusion, he has a chapter entitled "Why There Almost Certainly Is No God."
Atheism doesn't require a person to preclude himself of ever changing his mind. Take the two hypothetical scenarios below:
a. Science discovers a mountain of evidence FOR the existence of a personal god.
b. Religion discovers a mountain of evidence AGAINST the existence of a personal god.
I'd have FAR more hope for an atheist converting to religion after scenario [a] than a fundy to deconvert after scenario [b].
The great trouble with religion — any religion — is that a religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by evidence. - Heinlein
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and so it begins... what next?
by bez inmy husband had another 'phone call' last night from the congregation po... the conversation went something like this..... po " i do not want to put words into your mouth but are you saying you no longer want to be recognised as a jw?".
hubby " i am not making that statement no... cut to the chase what are you getting at".
po " i have been informed you celebrated (child) birthday".
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SweetBabyCheezits
Wow, Bez, I hate to hear what's happening to your family. Your situation is eerily familiar! Glad that you and your husband are getting out together. My wife and I are about to be DF'd (pending our absence from the appeal hearing) after my PO father turned me in for a couple of my emails I sent them. Here's the link if you're interested:
We had several phone calls from the elders before they arrived on our doorstep and, like an idiot, I opened the door. In hindsight, I really believe their goal was to get us to DA ourselves or say something that would allow them to DA us. That's a much cleaner break for them.
Anyways, I could be wrong but it sounds like if an announcement is read from the platform without the accused even being invited to a JC hearing, then the elders felt they had sufficient evidence that the accused had disassociated by word or action. I wasn't aware that the body could DF without a hearing unless the accused failed to show up. Again, I'm not aware of all circumstances so I might be wrong. I'm going mostly by what I remember from the Shepherding the Flock book.
Also, the part about the grandkids... Yeah, my mom has clearly indicated that's her biggest concern now. They want to see the grandkids without having to utter A SINGLE WORD to us. The visits are already supervised after she told my daughter that people who "don't serve Jehovah" are blinded by Satan. She's waiting on me to tell her the terms of visitation for now and she keeps asking and calling because she wants to have all of that figured out BEFORE the announcement. I asked her why that shouldn't be considered "necessary family business" and she acted like it would be too uncomfortable for her. When I told her that I didn't know if we could 'work anything out', she said, "That's not right! That's like saying if we don't believe like you want us to that you're not going to let us see the kids!" Haha. Wow. Is that you, Pot?
Whatever happens, I wish you guys the best. You could always try to help your friend see the injustice if you get disfellowshipped for "thoughtcrime."
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Bill O'Reilly vs. Bill Maher On Religion
by leavingwt in.
bill o'reilly vs. bill maher on religion - 09/30/10 .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zref_lpir_k.
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SweetBabyCheezits
Maher
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Bill O'Reilly vs. Bill Maher On Religion
by leavingwt in.
bill o'reilly vs. bill maher on religion - 09/30/10 .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zref_lpir_k.
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SweetBabyCheezits
Maher comes across as arrogant to people of faith in the same way that "apostates" come off as arrogant to JWs.
for Jimmy.
Ask them the same question: What was the first cause? O'reilly dogmatically states something he can't prove while Maher says "I don't know and neither do you." Maher's assertion only sounds arrogant if you disagree. (A year ago, I thought he came off arrogant.)
Otherwise, it's intellectual humility to recognize and admit that you don't have answers so you won't speculate.
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The Watchtower is now the world's largest magazine!
by life is to short innewsmaxs magazine just published an article that the watchtower is the most read magazine out there it evens surpasses time.. i have never heard of newmaxs but i just was emailed this and thought you might find it interesting.
i am sorry i do not know how to give the link so i am cutting and pasting.
if someone can do the link it would be great.
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SweetBabyCheezits
Wow that's a lot of Charmin for campers.
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Demons and the WTS
by brotherdan ini remember growing up and hearing all sorts of stories about demonic activity from people.
some would be experiences that people had going door to door and visiting a "witch" or "warlock".
some would inadvertently go to a fortune tellers door and have a demonic experience.. i was always facinated by all the stories.
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SweetBabyCheezits
This deserves a repost....