Posts by SweetBabyCheezits

185

Why did God kill children?

by brotherdan in

the atheists and bible deniers love to talk about how hateful and murderous god is.

i suggest the following.

i believe that the children that were killed in warfare by the israelites were taken to heaven with god.

SweetBabyCheezits

Lime, your anger and rage are consuming you. Calm the hell down.

Wait, me, too. Except I'm not really a true atheist, so where does that put me? I suppose it's like JWs consider us "bitter apostates"... Christians consider atheists "angry atheists"? But then I think of some of the hate mail that prominent atheists have received from Christians. They've got some angry messages of their own.

Dan, you're going through some tough times. I don't think we should take your words at face value. You're understandably upset and with what you're facing, I'd let you punch me in the gut if it made you feel better.

185

Why did God kill children?

by brotherdan in

the atheists and bible deniers love to talk about how hateful and murderous god is.

i suggest the following.

i believe that the children that were killed in warfare by the israelites were taken to heaven with god.

SweetBabyCheezits

What religion were your parents, Stephen?

185

Why did God kill children?

by brotherdan in

the atheists and bible deniers love to talk about how hateful and murderous god is.

i suggest the following.

i believe that the children that were killed in warfare by the israelites were taken to heaven with god.

SweetBabyCheezits

Yeah, it applies to all of us, Stephen. The difference is some people have raised their awareness of the big sliver and are able to say I don't know without feeling uncomfortable.

Faith is already in there as "Shit you know" but might be more accurately called "Shit you think you know."

278

Children of 1975

by d in

what was it like to live in the 1950's 1960's and early 70's as a jehovah witness.when they started to push the 1975 date..

SweetBabyCheezits

Debator,

I'm not looking to argue with you but I would like your honest input if you have time.

As a young fella (32), I wasn't too familiar with the 1975 excitement until later in life. I now have a different take on it than you, obviously, but I put together a document for my brother, an elder, who is pretty level-headed. Before I send it to him, I'd like to see where it leads from a JW perspective. (Many of these references have already been quoted on this thread, but not all.)

Honestly, I will probably remove my comments in red (so as not to influence with my thoughts) and leave articles (and my highlights) in the order shown for progression. If you choose to read it, do so with that in mind please.

Thanks,

SBC

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85277/1975.doc

388

I HATE this religion

by brotherdan in

so today was my first sunday meeting that i didn't go with my wife.

as an update she has decided not to move out right now...because she doesn't have anywhere to go.

but she is giving me the silent treatment.

SweetBabyCheezits

Geez.... stay off the "Why did god kill children" thread, Dan. I didn't realize this had escalated so quickly. No reason to be dealing with that issue, too.

Do you have any buddies at work?? No unbelieving relatives?

Even if the answer is no to those questions, you aren't alone. We may be typing on the other side of the country but we are all going through this with you. Shit, if you were even one state away, I'd come get you.

I feel for you, bro. Keep your senses! I know that's easier said than done. I don't think I would have control if I were you but hang in there.

62

Back from New Orleans, ready for DF announcement!

by SweetBabyCheezits in

jw
friends

[click here for a little history...].

mission accomplished!

my wife and i held off the announcement and were able to attend my bil's wedding & reception this past weekend.

SweetBabyCheezits

Thanks again, yous guys! I really do appreciate the heartfelt sentiment expressed on this board when strangers are going through tough times. That, to me, is what being a human is all about. (Well, that and sex - hi, honey! Okay there's more than that but I'm gonna be lazy and leave it.)

Although wouldn't it have been easier to simply DA both yourselves?

Debator, my wife and I aren't picking the easiest path in any of this. Easy is to go with the flow. This obviously is not the flow of our social and family circles. It's hard.

If we DA'd that may have caused some family to assume we were tucking tail and just wanted out for the hell of it. That's not the case. We admitted being guilty of "thoughtcrime" more or less. That we will be DF'd because of that... may help old friends realize, someday, that there's too much emphasis on control and unity.

I personally believe the Bible was about control as well so, while I appreciate your concern, there's no reason for me to argue those verses with you. Best wishes to you on your own journey, though.

185

Why did God kill children?

by brotherdan in

the atheists and bible deniers love to talk about how hateful and murderous god is.

i suggest the following.

i believe that the children that were killed in warfare by the israelites were taken to heaven with god.

SweetBabyCheezits

But those that prayed and DID receieve an answer...they are not believed by others are are thought of as being fanatical.

Do you think Muslim prayers are answered by Allah? If they think their prayers are answered, do you think they're fanatical?

I ask my parents difficult questions about their JW faith and it makes them uncomfortable and they refuse to answer. Why? In one last attempt, I put it to my father that he believes so strongly due to a very old presupposition that is rooted in his mind and he will not acknowledge it, he will not even think about it.

Why eliminate the possibilty that presupposition has so much to do with how you believe? And if you can acknowledge that it does, why not force your mind to examine things without that presupposition?

I think it's not easy unless you start down that path on your own, much like leaving the WT Society. When someone else tries to show it to you, the defenses go up.

Having said that, it's just my own hypothesis. I could be wrong.

185

Why did God kill children?

by brotherdan in

the atheists and bible deniers love to talk about how hateful and murderous god is.

i suggest the following.

i believe that the children that were killed in warfare by the israelites were taken to heaven with god.

SweetBabyCheezits

We all know nothing.

True!

And we all claim to know it all.

False. Strong faith asks you to KNOW (relative sense) what you cannot prove. Some of us are preaching DOUBT and I DON'T KNOW, but those who preach certainty based on something as subjective as faith are the ones I argue with. I mean, we both refuse to accept self-contradicting beliefs from the WT, Islam, etc... anything else that lacks evidence, such as a young earth (fundies).

Again, I have never said that God doesn't exist. I don't know. Maybe a supernatural realm does exist. I think it's improbable but I can't use logic or evidence to prove otherwise. Deism, for now, doesn't sound like a totally illogical possibility to me. But I wouldn't presume to know for sure.

An unknown creator is one thing. The way billions of people would have us picture him is another And just as you might (if given the circumstances) expose the flaws of every other belief system, holy book, and god out there, I will, too. In this case, yours is not immune.

Dan, you asked why God killed children. Surely you knew what you were getting into.

We are all idiots.

Nowwww we're getting somewhere!!! That's what I like to hear! The following pie chart applies to ALL of us. (Which, again, is why I preach against certainty.)

185

Why did God kill children?

by brotherdan in

the atheists and bible deniers love to talk about how hateful and murderous god is.

i suggest the following.

i believe that the children that were killed in warfare by the israelites were taken to heaven with god.

SweetBabyCheezits

Character 1: "You are a man who likes to have the last word." Character 2: "It is immaterial who has the last word." (exchange of words) Character 1: "That man never gives up."

My arguments are suppressed by my "in" family so I do tend to be more outspoken on here. It's an outlet and since I've got freedom of speech and thought, if I see what I think is fallacious reasoning, especially if I clutched similar faulty logic before, then I try to expose those faults to help others get another perspective. I hope nobody takes my remarks personally.

Also, I enjoy a discussion of logic and I welcome evidence that proves I'm holding onto a biased or skewed perspective.

185

Why did God kill children?

by brotherdan in

the atheists and bible deniers love to talk about how hateful and murderous god is.

i suggest the following.

i believe that the children that were killed in warfare by the israelites were taken to heaven with god.

SweetBabyCheezits

A book can no more control a person as any other inanaimate object.

Psac, didn't we go through this in another thread? I don't mean that disrespectfully, just that I seem to remember a similar discussion.

I'm sorry, I thought this part was understood. -> Holy books instruct the reader to do this and not do that, right?

In that respect, people who take a literal view of the Koran obey it's rules. It controls them. Same goes for the Bible. For example, some folks don't question Yahweh's actions in the OT because the Bible tells them that pride comes before a fall. Ergo, it affects, influences, controls their thinking to some extent.

You are assuming I didn't and you are incorrect in that regard.

You said this in reference to my comment that you called God out on his child slayings before you questioned the authenticity, accuracy, and divinity of the bible.

If you did conduct an unbiased investigation of the facts before accepting the bible and only later demanded God answer for his atrocious acts, well I apologize for making that assumption. I was wrong.

However, I would like to state that simply having books on atheism doesn't preclude a person from holding onto bias when reading them. I'm not saying you did or didn't. Just clarifying, since I know many Christians who have books on atheism and many atheists who have books on religion.