Posts by SweetBabyCheezits

193

Are you afraid of the Ouija board still?

by cyberjesus in

do you think it has superpowers?

who controlls it?

satan?

SweetBabyCheezits

A persons lack of belief in spirits is just as likely to sway their viewpoint as much as preconception. Disbelief can actually be a stronger preconception than those who put their faith in a particular version of faith. It is just as blinding to what is actually there. If it is already determined in your mind that you do not believe in such things, than evidence that they do, would be disregarded. Works both ways.

I agree with some of the reasoning in your post (the uknown), partially, CL, but I beg you to reconsider the logic above. Please just go with me on this...

Each of us currently lacks belief in an infinite number of real and imaginary things. That is how we start life. Lack of belief is neutral ground. It's only as you grow and learn that you build your perception of the existence of other beings.

Your previously neutral lack of belief in the spirit realm was filled in when you adopted (or were fed) a new perception as a child.... of god, satan, angels, and demons, correct?

That perception was built upon yet another set of presuppositions: that the Bible is the word of God, infallible perhaps, and that Mom & Dad, and the Society, were instructing you properly from it.

Now to accurately assess things you must clear out the bias and presupposition that was placed there early in life.

I started the same way as you but in recent years realized that many concepts in the ol' dome were based on a faulty foundation. I peeled away layer after layer of presupposition until I got back to a lack of belief in the spirit realm.

It's not that I wish for there to be no spirit realm,nor would I say it does not exist. I just have no conclusive reason to believe in it at this time. That is neutral and should not influence me to reject EVIDENCE that it exists, if real evidence is ever discovered. On the contrary, I agree with Isaac Asimov:

"I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be."

As for the spirit realm, I do not believe it's impossible, only that it is highly improbable until proven otherwise. That goes for a great many unknowns, including UFOs.

For example, see the thread below... I was initially intrigued by the lights in the news footage. But I had to tell myself that we must eliminate all other options before concluding that the lights were from UFO(s). A brief search turned up something pretty interesting...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/200510/1/Amazing-footage-Sign-of-the-end

Now what you said about disregarding evidence... I agree with that. But unfortunately anecdotes cannot be regarded as evidence. I believe the scientific method is consistent in scrutiny of ALL ideas, impartial, and does not make exception for presupposition. So the spirit realm remains highly improbable for me, such that I will remain skeptical of extraordinary claims until extraordinary evidence appears.

As for your own experiences, I can't say how I'd feel if I experienced something truly inexplicable. The questions would probably drive me over the edge.

PS. My aunt bought me some Smurf toys and after all the urban legends came out, I was scared to death of em.

32

LETS GET SMART: "What parts of science that go against your religious beliefs you DONT AGREE WITH"

by cyberjesus in

so, many in here disagree with many aspects of science because they go against their own personal beliefs.

so lets all get smarter here and do some research.

if you have something that you dont agree with science because it goes against what your religion tell us and lets all do some research about it.. if we cant find any evidence of it we will switch to disagree with science.

SweetBabyCheezits

Unshackled and FTG.... I know, right?!

I just sounded like a tweenage girl.

Man, if money were no object, I'd have one of those guys tutoring my kids. I'd sit in, of course, because money's no object so I don't have to go to the office.

I've started posting their videos on FB, hoping that my lingering JW friends will take a look.

193

Are you afraid of the Ouija board still?

by cyberjesus in

do you think it has superpowers?

who controlls it?

satan?

SweetBabyCheezits

I've got to tell you, however, that I very much enjoyed the interaction.

Same here. Even the smack.

You've got a brain.

There you go again, stating something you can't possibly know. :-D

29

If you believe in demons, which things you still believe?

by cyberjesus in

some here still believe in demons, therefore you still have some beliefs associated with demons, demon possesion, demons getting into furniture, black cats, bad luck, etc etc etc.

what things do you still believe regarding demons and why do you still believe it?>.

happy halloween, if you dont happy halloween too..

SweetBabyCheezits

To me, it counts that you had a perception that you levitated and that you had perception that you spoke to the identity in a form of a nightmarish instrumentation.

In those senses, it counts, yes. So I'm not calling you a liar. I accept that you believe what you described happened.

As for the true explanation, there are numerous other possibilities based on things I cannot know. I can't comment about halucinations, drug use, your state of consciousness, etc....

My question is why first attribute it to demons and not something else off the wall (but not nearly as improbable) like some magnetic field affecting your perception? Because that does happen and can be replicated by science. Many near death experiences can be explained by this.

193

Are you afraid of the Ouija board still?

by cyberjesus in

do you think it has superpowers?

who controlls it?

satan?

SweetBabyCheezits

I get the impression you're a "Roberts Rules of Order" kind of guy, SBJ.

Meh, I'm laid back when I'm relaxing. That's about the only time.

193

Are you afraid of the Ouija board still?

by cyberjesus in

do you think it has superpowers?

who controlls it?

satan?

SweetBabyCheezits

SBC: And yeah, there was more intelligence on this thread before your arrogance started crowding some of it out.

Nik: You're the pot and I'm the kettle. It was you, after all, who denounced my perspectives as offensive to your

sensibilities.

I apologize to the posters on this thread with whom I debated. I did go back and read some posts. There is an air of arrogance in a number of my posts, which for some reason tends to happen when I discuss the supernatural. Thanks for pointing that out, Nik. (Oddly, the tone was also different than I intended, esp talking to TEC, who is a very kind poster.)

It should be noted, though, that my above comment was a terse reply to your, "Surely there is more intelligence in here than that?" coupled with your dogmatic, "There is no paranormal." (emphasis mine)

SBC: I think a little intellectual humility is called for

Nik: Intellectual? Possibly. Humble? Not a chance.

Nik, if you isolate the words, the meaning is lost. I'm not claiming I'm humble or intellectual. Intellectual humility is...

Having a consciousness of the limits of one's knowledge, including a sensitivity to circumstances in which one's native egocentrism is likely to function self-deceptively; sensitivity to bias, prejudice and limitations of one's viewpoint. Intellectual humility depends on recognizing that one should not claim more than one actually knows. It does not imply spinelessness or submissiveness. It implies the lack of intellectual pretentiousness, boastfulness, or conceit, combined with insight into the logical foundations, or lack of such foundations, of one's beliefs.

130

Are you interested in Bible Congruence?

by sabastious in

does the bible have to agree with itself for it to have lasting value?.

-sab.

SweetBabyCheezits

What?? Are Dr Phil's books violent, too?

193

Are you afraid of the Ouija board still?

by cyberjesus in

do you think it has superpowers?

who controlls it?

satan?

SweetBabyCheezits

There is no Santa Claus. (Try a breath mint, SBC.)

The old "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" wheeze? Surely there is more intelligence in here than that?

I'm eating a peppermint patty right now!

You're preaching to a skeptic, chief. I've already said I see no empirical evidence of a supernatural realm and that's what it will take for me to believe. But there's a big difference between saying "I don't have enough evidence to believe in X" and "X does not exist." We can reject the concept of self-refuting gods with certainty all day long, no problem, but which argument will you use to show that the supernatural realm absolutely does not exist? And yeah, there was more intelligence on this thread before your arrogance started crowding some of it out.

I think a little intellectual humility is called for,eg, Thomas Paine's perspective:

"He who denies to another this right (to his opinion), makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it."

When I ask questions to get others to reason on their experiences, I'm not saying those experiences never happened and I'm not saying an otherworldly realm cannot possibly exist (thought I don't personally believe it). I'm just trying to get them to eliminate all possibilities within the realm of reality that we live in before they settle on "demons".

193

Are you afraid of the Ouija board still?

by cyberjesus in

do you think it has superpowers?

who controlls it?

satan?

SweetBabyCheezits

The word preconception means: An opinion or conception formed in advance of adequate knowledge or experience. Experience trumps conception.

Hi, CL. I know it seems that way, but we (if I may be so bold) at one time had a preconception that eerie, unexplainable things that scare us must be the work of demonic powers. Maybe you never did but most JWs I know thought that.

The problem is when we later experience something unexplainable, even if we've left the WT, that old preconceived idea could cause us to attribute said event to demonic powers if we don't see any other explanation.

All I'm saying is that I think strong presuppositions can get lodged deep within the subconscious and then we might settle on THAT before considering all other plausible options.

Not gonna be specific. No need. It is not evidence for any other person. ;-)

This is true. Thanks for your honesty.

193

Are you afraid of the Ouija board still?

by cyberjesus in

do you think it has superpowers?

who controlls it?

satan?

SweetBabyCheezits

You do not have to believe in angels or fallen angels to experience the supernatural. Plenty of people don't believe in a deity but have no trouble believing in UFOs.

Do supernaturalists ever try to explain Ouija board action as UFO-related phenomena? If not, no offense, but your argument is not really relevant to my specific Ouija board questions: "What if I don't believe in holy or fallen angels? ....If a true skeptic, a scientist, gets his mitts on an Ouija board and nothing supernatural happens, does that mean he got a dud?"

Second, if I read your post correctly, it seems you're saying "There are atheists who believe in UFOs, therefore even those who lack belief in the spirit realm experience the supernatural." That doesn't quite follow. For some atheists to believe in UFOs does not show they experience anything... anymore than a Muslim believing in Allah shows that he experiences Allah's blessing or malediction. It still comes down to faith.

Either those two sentences don't belong together (which I might've wrongly assumed they did) or they need to be modified for consistency if we want to keep them together:

"You do not have to believe in angels or fallen angels to experiencebelieve in the supernatural. Plenty of people don't believe in a deity but have no trouble believing in UFOs."

OR

"You do not have to believe in angels or fallen angels to experience the supernatural. Plenty of people don't believe in a deity but have no trouble believing inexperienceUFOsdemon attacks." (Granted, in this case you'd have to provide evidence of unbelievers experiencing verified demon attacks.)