jst2laws

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Posts by jst2laws

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  24

  since i sent my DA letter

  by jurs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  things have certainly been eventful since i sent my da letter.

  it hasn't been announced at the meeting yet, but plenty seem to know!!!!!

  monday a pioneer sister called me.

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  jst2laws

  Jt,
  I feel a kinship, Bro. Your manner of expression took me back 25 years to NY City and the points you made were valid. The best part is I agree with you and Jurs. As I am in the process of resigning as an elder I plan to make a point. I could blame it on the family needs or other stress but I’m going to make some noise about meddling in conscience matters, the hierarchy structure, and the lack of real love, ect. But I love your thought too:
  “i tell my wife they will just have to come and get my Black Behind cause i ain't wasting no stamp to send a lettter to Mo Larry and Curly”. I laughed until my wife wanted to know what was going on (evasive excuses employed).
  Thanks
  Jst2laws
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  11

  OMG!! I finally started Reading C of C

  by slipnslidemaster in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just go ray franz's book crisis of concience.. it's here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0914675044/o/qid=989934775/sr=2-1/107-8614628-6553349.

  i read 6 chapters last night and couldn't put it down!!

  i can't believe that i waited so long to take a look at this unbelievable work.

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  jst2laws

  Slipnslidemaster,

  Imagine getting both Ray’s books and trying to read them while still inside, and thought of as a pillar in the congregation. Having come to Bethel shortly after Ray and his wife arrived I left about four years before the witch hunt started. I would not have survived. I covered over my doubts by blindly pressing on and accepting more responsibility. I now face the quandary, how do I back off without getting caught and massacred? Fortunately my family is ready without even reading the books. (they are tired of me fighting the hierarchy)
  
  ANY JW’S READING THIS? Brothers, I’m still here with you, inside. If you are like me you are tired of never being good enough, of being just a little out of step with the Lemming mind set, kissing the feet of Circuit Overseers, making your kids march to someone else’s song and dance, or moving magazines and feeling guilty about not asking for a donation. But if your like me, still obediently, you wondered what was all that stuff about Ray Franz?
  DON’T LET ANYONE TELL YOU WHAT TO THINK OR WHAT FACTS YOU CAN CONSIDER. Even Satan was give an opportunity to make his case against God. What is the WTBTS so afraid of that they wont let you read the account of one of their former leaders? Get the books.

  Jst2laws
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  11

  To Mommy - re: New Light

  by Farkel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  mommy,.

  in another thread you stated to me,.

  : my mother, when we spoke said that she beleives the org should have new information come out(new light brighter and brighter).

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  jst2laws

  Hello Farkel,
  Excellent reasoning. This thought summarized the flaw in the entire concept:
  “For the notion of “the light getting brighter” to have any merit at all, there first must be at least some truth in the original belief, and each clarification must ADD to that truth without changing the gist of it.” I look back now and remember chuckling for 30 years over the “new light” concept, but I kept forgiving them and going along.

  I have not been as regular here as I would like, but when I do visit I’m dismayed at how posts like this and JanH’s “Missing the Target” move down the thread too fast. I spent so much time checking out the links provided by Osarsif ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=5460&site=3) by the time I finished book marking the original post was three pages down. Thanks to everyone for all this research.

  Jst2laws
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  14

  Missing The Target for 124 Years!

  by JanH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  missing the target for 124 years!

  (and counting...).

  the peace would be "very short-lived.

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  jst2laws

  OK! I’m finally going to ask.
  1 Where do you keep these goodies. This is to much research and time invested to just put it here once. But you don’t have a link to a site. Surely you have this kind of gem organized for us somewhere so we can bookmark it and go back when we need it. PLEASE!
  2 Where do you get the publications. I read on some site “WT (reprints)” or something like that. I only have WT’s back to 1942 most of the books and old booklets (never read the booklets- should I?) Wouldn’t it be wonderful to have these kind of quotes available in PDF format to download.

  Thanks for the post.

  Jst2laws
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  10

  Isabel Paterson on Dubs

  by Farkel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a very good friend of mine whos also a professor of english literature and humanities at a large, well-known university is also a libertarian!

  he is quite a remarkable person, who has written extensively on many and varied subjects including a book on the titanic disaster, ayn rand, jehovahs witnesses, and isabel paterson, a contemporary of ayn rand.

  he knows more about jws than even most informed apostates, although he has never been a jw.

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  jst2laws

  Hi Farkel,

  >“We don’t enjoy, for any length of time, a book in which it is impossible to be sure what the author means.”
  “Practically the whole art of writing consists in getting rid of superfluous words.”
  
  Even as a loyal Dub, I wondered WHY? Is it me out of synch? Or is it Freddie who is weird?

  >On dub doctrine:
  “The natural tendency of the human mind is to get rid of facts, and if obliged to retain a few, to mutilate them beyond recognition.”

  I closed my mind to this possibility for too long.

  >On Circuit Overseers:
  “They do as they like, and that would be fine if they’d let other people do the same.”

  You know the vise I’m in on that subject. Abraham questioned Jehovah, but I have gone way beyond that in disrespecting the CO’s authority.

  >Good advice on why dubs should jump ship instead of continuing to “hang on,” hoping for things to get better:
  “People do not realize how important it is to have a good time until it is too late.”

  Maybe it’s not TOO late! But jumping without anyone noticing is hard.

  I e-mailed you recently and wondered why you hadn’t replied. Now I know why and appreciate the post.

  Jst2laws
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  7

  The GB and Evil, WHY?

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reading responses to jw72's current post i was reminded of a book i read more than ten years ago that makes it all fit together now.. being one who has hung on for years hoping for major reform within the jw administration i feel i now must accept reality.

  why does the gb hang on to such unpopular and harmful teachings such as blood, confidentiality for pedophiles, disfellowshipping, meddling in personal matters, irritating people with their door to door preaching and on and on?.

  years ago, i read a book by dr. scott peck entitled people of the lie.

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  jst2laws

  Outnfree
  >”Over time it is those in each crop of Bethelite newbies who can put up with the obvious hypocrisy who remain. Eventually making a more and more calloused organization that is less and less likely to admit its heinous errors.”

  I agree. I do know, however, there are still some good men there, some friends from 25 years ago. Either they have been corrupted by the environment by now, or they are desperate to tow the line for fear of getting booted at their age. An old friend who went through “hell” with me stood up to Knorr and the entire heirarchy in the 70’s but he now ignores any allusion I make to problems in the org. Having survived the purge in 1980 who dares to speak up now. I wonder if there was a “safe house” for them to flee to if they all spoke up, guaranteed food and housing, if the safe house would be flooded.

  I liked your response. Honors to you for rescuing your nephew’s daughter.

  Jst2laws

  editted fore speling
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  7

  The GB and Evil, WHY?

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reading responses to jw72's current post i was reminded of a book i read more than ten years ago that makes it all fit together now.. being one who has hung on for years hoping for major reform within the jw administration i feel i now must accept reality.

  why does the gb hang on to such unpopular and harmful teachings such as blood, confidentiality for pedophiles, disfellowshipping, meddling in personal matters, irritating people with their door to door preaching and on and on?.

  years ago, i read a book by dr. scott peck entitled people of the lie.

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  jst2laws

  JT
  Because I like your posts, “DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEp” is a great compliment. Thanks.
  Jst2laws
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  7

  The GB and Evil, WHY?

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reading responses to jw72's current post i was reminded of a book i read more than ten years ago that makes it all fit together now.. being one who has hung on for years hoping for major reform within the jw administration i feel i now must accept reality.

  why does the gb hang on to such unpopular and harmful teachings such as blood, confidentiality for pedophiles, disfellowshipping, meddling in personal matters, irritating people with their door to door preaching and on and on?.

  years ago, i read a book by dr. scott peck entitled people of the lie.

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  jst2laws

  Hello Stephanus

  >”:to realise that the GB know that this antiquated, anti-science, anti-Bible doctrine only damages their own flock, but to back down from it would expose the fact that they know it. They'd rather keep perpetuating the evil than admit they could in anyway be wrong”

  If Dr. Peck is right, that is the summary of it. From my experience being there, these are men very focused on righteousness, even their ultimate goal of perfection. They cannot accept the reality that their predecessors made mistakes that harmed people, nor that their personal journey toward perfect righteousness hurt anyone. To make a changes in policy would require that admission. Unacceptable!!!

  OR! They could blame God- “It was not His time to reveal that truth”.

  Jst2laws
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  7

  The GB and Evil, WHY?

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reading responses to jw72's current post i was reminded of a book i read more than ten years ago that makes it all fit together now.. being one who has hung on for years hoping for major reform within the jw administration i feel i now must accept reality.

  why does the gb hang on to such unpopular and harmful teachings such as blood, confidentiality for pedophiles, disfellowshipping, meddling in personal matters, irritating people with their door to door preaching and on and on?.

  years ago, i read a book by dr. scott peck entitled people of the lie.

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  jst2laws

  Reading responses to JW72's current post I was reminded of a book I read more than ten years ago that makes it all fit together now.

  Being one who has hung on for years hoping for major reform within the JW administration I feel I now must accept reality. Why does the GB hang on to such unpopular and harmful teachings such as Blood, confidentiality for pedophiles, disfellowshipping, meddling in personal matters, irritating people with their door to door preaching and on and on?

  Years ago, I read a book by Dr. Scott Peck entitled People of the Lie. What the Author explains early on is that it is not a common practice for Mental Health professionals to label anyone as Evil, they simply display socially unacceptable behavior. But Doctor Peck also accepted reality, that there are some people who are truly evil. They are people who will persistently hurt others for what they can gain from it. I would at one time have argued this could not apply to the GB because they are not getting anything. I can vouch for them as for as financial issues go. True they live on some nice property but so do the “new boys” at Bethel who do not make the decisions. So what do they get out of sticking with mindless traditional teachings that cause great harm when they have the power to change them?

  I will summarize how Dr. Peck explains as for as my memory serves me. He explains that evil people, for fear of admitting they took a wrong course way back in life,(in this case WT history) are dedicated to building and preserving an image of goodness or perfection. This image must be preserved at all cost to hide not just the imperfection that exist, not just the harm they have caused, but the evil of not having changed the policies a long time ago. Their conscience can not stand the reality of what they have done and what they are, so when confronted with their own faults they lie, justify, or blame others. (Really, this is in the book) Some how they must appear to have either
  (1) Done the right thing or
  (2) The good they are doing is hidden by someone else’s evil.

  Basically, these people are evil deep in side but put on a pretence for themselves and others that they are good. The evil shows up when they are willing to lie, or "sacrifice" someone else in order to preserve their appearance of "good". Beck says, "strangely these people are trying to destroy evil" sincerely thinking of themselves as righteous in their efforts. I guess this makes it even harder to admit their own evil.

  It’s a good read. Peck is also the author of “The Road Less Traveled” with which, I hope, many or familiar.

  Jst2laws

  WT self incrimination: ‘When counseled, have we tried to justify ourselves, minimize the seriousness of the situation or shift the blame to someone else. Have you ever reacted in that way?” United in Worship, page 125
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  3

  Does This Mean There Are No Rules

  by goo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath?.

  (sorry about my poor paraphrase).

  goo

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  jst2laws

  Hi Goo,

  >"This mean there are no rules?"

  Just Two Laws!

  jst2laws