jst2laws

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Posts by jst2laws

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  10

  Qestions too US peopel

  by happy man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when we in sweden read about so much terribel things happend in us, for exampel all this killing and massakers,.

  and scandals, as now in enron bussiness, i read that one boss killd himself, it is perhaps a new wartegate scandal.. then when i see all this movies widh a lot of killing and other terribel things, as been send all overer the word from hollywood,.

  can you not understand that some peopel see this as a poison , , if i then look what us military done, inn irak, and other places, killing innocent peopel, i think you goverment show one face at home , and other face inn for exampel the 3 word.. if i say if your presidint shows upp to bee involvd inn this mess inn enron , what do you say, as talk so much of jw as bad peopel, .

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  jst2laws

  HS,

  Excellent!!

  Jst2laws
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  8

  Silent Lambs

  by VioletAnai in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here i was thinking i was the only one with a dirty past.

  the elders didn't understand why i had a drinking problem.

  thought it must of been fornication and well, the sister i was studying with thought i had to have been my brother-in-law cause i was drinking with him.

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  jst2laws

  Dear Violet,

  You said: "Here I was thinking I was the only one with a dirty past."

  That says more about how you feel about yourself and what was done to you than about the failure of the organization and its "elders".

  Welcome to this discussion board. You seem to have some insite into the side effects of what you have endured as well as the inability of many to understand. I hope you find help with your feelings concerning what you call your "dirty past" whether here are locally.

  Jst2laws
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  20

  Question for ex elders

  by Marilyn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm wondering if any of you ex elders ever felt embarrassed or awkward about having to stick your noses into other peoples business did it ever seem like that to you, or were you of the mind that you were a necessary part of the lives of the flock?

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  marilyn

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  jst2laws

  Marilyn,

  Although there were times when people would come to me with personal matters wherein I felt I was of help, delving into peoples lives in judicial matters or other investigations always made me feel ill.

  I can assure you there are elders out there who love it. But I doubt you will find them here.

  Jst2laws
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  120

  Quality of this Forum

  by stevieb1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just a quick thought - i am a firm believer in freedom of speech etc, but having been on this forum for some time i honestly can't say that i can introduce a doubting jw interested in true christianity to this board.

  some of the deep discussions on jw doctrine are excellent, but everything else seems to be nonsense in my opinion.

  why can't this site be more like the old www.witnesses.net which seemed to have more spiritual meat rather than backbiting, gossip, and rumour and even obscenity.. sorry for my frank opinion

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  jst2laws

  Stevieb1,

  This is a response to your original post that started this thread. I agree with you, except for one point below. I do not recommend this site to any doubting JW's. I have tried doing that in the past and it has damaged my credibility in their minds. They not only doubted if I was safe to confide in but were inclined to go back to defending the WT after visiting here.

  The one point I might disagree with on is "quality of this forum". This is a quality forum. It is a haven for sharing and recieving support for many. The problem is it's spirit is not tame enough for the average exiting cult member. It is shocking and vulgar to many who are only questioning but still have faith in the "Organization".

  It would be great to have a place for all questioning JW's would feel safe while getting informed. I would not recommend trying to change something good such as a site as this to accomodate a different need. Just don't send them here. I do wonder sometimes, though, how many lurkers get turned off visiting here and it only comfirms their erroneous notion that there is 'no where else to go' but 'Jehovah's organization'.

  Jst2laws
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  14

  Ray Franz wrote back!

  by hungry4life in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my friend just called.

  she is very excited she just received a reply to her letter to ray franz.

  she said that it is about six pages long and not a form letter but a personal correspondance regarding the issues and concerns she had written him about.

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  jst2laws

  hungry4life,

  Ray Franz is alive and well. He embodies the qualities of true love and caring that we should all strive to imitate.

  He is just a real Christian. He would not quit doing what he does to retire even if he could because he cares about people, as shown by his responce to your friend.

  Jst2laws
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  13

  Corruption within the elder ranks!

  by JohnSteadman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been serving as a presiding overseer in the united kingdom for over 20 years, in my time i have seen the organisation develop and grow both spiritually and financially.

  i have seen elders come and go but more so than any other time i have witnessed lies and cover ups from elders, co's, bethel members which have caused me great upset.

  i do not wish to go into any details but would like to warn people of the dishonesty that has become jehovah's organisation.

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  jst2laws

  Hello John,

  Welcome. You must have been a lurker for a while as I was. Good to have you start speaking up. You are among good company as many here have been where you are now. I'm still adjusting even at this time. I resigned less than a year ago.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6999&site=3

  Anything you want to talk about feel free to bring it up. Just want to say too that discovering the WT is a fraud does not have to reflect on God. As one poster here often says 'Christianity is not a religion but a relationship'.

  Relax and make friends.

  Jst2laws
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  26

  Former Elders and Friendly Fire

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i fought many years from inside as an independent spirit trying to change or at least mitigate damage done by the wtbts.

  i met ted jaracz, in the early 1970s when he was called into bethel to serve on the gb.

  this mans control of the service department and the gb is what i have fought for 3 decades but recently conceded this system is beyond reforming.

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  jst2laws

  teejay

  Is it "harsh criticism" or a valid argument?

  You know I always appreciate your reasoning. Several things you said made me think but I will address the above.

  I have been known to be overly sensitive which is not a good quality for one who has fought many issues with the WT over the years. I guess with that background I have a slight aversion to confrontational interchanges here on the board. I admit I have taken personally some of the statements made about those who try to make a difference in the inside. That is my fault and an area I could improve. At the same time I did learn some things from the discussions.

  I will be fine and grow from what I read here whether it is ‘harsh criticism’ or ‘valid argument’. At least I hope I am mature enough to handle it. You see, TJ, it doesn’t matter whether or not it is ‘valid’ if it feels like ‘harsh criticism’. That’s why in my original post I said:

  Even if those who criticize are right in their condemnation of us who have tried, the fruitage of the battle is only dead bodies left behind. The bodies are those whom you should have recognized as allies

  The casualties are not necessarily the result of flawed reasoning but of what may feel like ‘harsh criticism. This would be especially true of JW ‘elders’ lurking here of which I was one less than a year ago.

  I guess my sensitivity is showing again. But I’m probably not the only one. Anyway, thanks for responding again. From what I have seen your approach is a model of valid argumentation without coming across as critical.

  Jst2laws
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  26

  Former Elders and Friendly Fire

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i fought many years from inside as an independent spirit trying to change or at least mitigate damage done by the wtbts.

  i met ted jaracz, in the early 1970s when he was called into bethel to serve on the gb.

  this mans control of the service department and the gb is what i have fought for 3 decades but recently conceded this system is beyond reforming.

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  jst2laws

  Hello teejay,

  Excellent illustration you used (above). I liked the thoughts you presented as well.

  Most here have fled an organization intolerant of differing opinions. Compared to what we used to be we have all, except for You Know and a few others, learned to be tolerant of differing opinions. I am only concerned when not only the opinion is dismissed but the holder of the opinion is attacked personally. Is it possible that at this point it is no longer a debate but an argument?

  It happens. I'm suggesting that we try to remember we are all victims and now we, at least I and those who have responded to this thread, are here to support each other. We do not serve ourselves nor those who come here to visit when we destroy each other with 'friendly fire'.

  You have presented a positive thought, with your illustration and the good quotes. Thanks for helping.

  Jst2laws
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  26

  Former Elders and Friendly Fire

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i fought many years from inside as an independent spirit trying to change or at least mitigate damage done by the wtbts.

  i met ted jaracz, in the early 1970s when he was called into bethel to serve on the gb.

  this mans control of the service department and the gb is what i have fought for 3 decades but recently conceded this system is beyond reforming.

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  jst2laws

  Lilacs,
  You said: "If we are to blame All the Elders for how some of them act. We might as well blame all the JW's for how a few act.

  We were all brainwashed by this cult. Elders inclueded, and being so were following what we thought was the truth."

  Thats it. It would be nice if we all would relish this reality and congradulate each other for escaping instead of attacking a few for being more reprehensible than ourselves. But I understand, as JT and Lonewolf pointed out many have been seriously hurt by men in control and this requires patience on our part.

  LoneWolf
  .."More than likely, that individual is one who has felt helpless at one time or another as to defending themselves from one. "

  One of many of your comments I agree with. Thanks for the advise too.

  Jst2laws
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  26

  Former Elders and Friendly Fire

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i fought many years from inside as an independent spirit trying to change or at least mitigate damage done by the wtbts.

  i met ted jaracz, in the early 1970s when he was called into bethel to serve on the gb.

  this mans control of the service department and the gb is what i have fought for 3 decades but recently conceded this system is beyond reforming.

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  jst2laws

  JT,
  
  You always speak with such reasonableness. And I hope many were 'sad' to see this 'fight break out'.

  I always appreciate your thoughts James.

  Sam Beli

  Thanks for the Positive thoughts

  Islandwoman,

  You said "I have not commented on this subject and even now I hesitate". I understand. I'm not sure I should have opened this up because I do not want to nor will I get into a fight about it. I appreciate you sharing your and your husband experience. You summed up my feelings too with "I am tired of this black and white mentality".

  Jst2laws