Posts by debator

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Isaac

So Jesus doesn't mean heaven when he says heaven? Again your answer leaves begs the question where is john the baptist if he isn't someone in it?

He is talking about people IN the kingdom of heaven of which John isn't one.

And when has this kingdom of heaven been available from?

Matthew 11:12 (New International Version)

12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it

So before then it wasn't available.

In part I do agree that this kingdom of heaven willl be over the earth and encompass us.

Matthew 6:10 (New International Version)

10 your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.

Revelation 5:10 (Amplified Bible)

10 And You have made them a kingdom (royal race) and priests to our God, and they SHALL reign [as kings] over the earth! (A)

We on earth will be ruled over by these priests and kings in heaven.

Psalm 103:19
Jehovah has established his throne in heaven, and his kingdom rules over all.

But we (creation) on earth are waiting for this to happen.

Romans 8:19-23 (New International Version)

19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that [a] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

of whom Jesus was literally the first.

John 3:13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi mosha

I wasn't specifying Jews today, who are a people cut off, a sliced off bough replaced by Early Christians. I'm talking about Jews using Bible chronology to be in expectation of the messiah when Jesus was on earth.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Aguest

W will have to agree to disagree with prayer While you continue to keep saying giving thanks is not part of pray to God. Not recognising Jesus was talking about prayer as a people and pray personally for ourselves. You are sifting out gnats in this while missing the principle of pray, beseeching and giving thanks to Jehovah our Father being part of it.

Does the bible lie? Becasue Jews ALL recognise only a earthly reward and earthly resurrection in god's kingdom so unless they used a different Bible they would not have known before Jesus about the new covenant. All your scriptures in hebrews talk about rewards and "belonging to heaven" not IN heaven.

The city refered to is God's kingdom and what does Jesus say about God's kingdom?

Matthew 6:10 (New International Version)

10 your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.

The kingdom encompasses earth as well as heaven

Revelation 5:10
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

Revelation confirms this.

Of course then you try and call Jesus a liar when he talked of John the baptist rather than address it properly.

"I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

Does john the baptist goto heaven according to Jesus he doesn't so where does he go?

Jesus is called in malachi "the ANGEL of the covenant" using the hebrew word for Angel so the Bible already calls Jesus an angel.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Aguest

You yourself from your own opinion qualify what is prayer, beseeching etc despite the Bibles use of the word pray or thanks to God. Ironically also by your opinion witnesses have made no sin our places would be consider private places of worship for us specifically, only the interested being there so we are not Publically making a display of our pray and in fact if you had been to a kingdom hall all prayers are specific to that day and besseching of Jehovah our father. And you have to qualify Jesus's (as eldererelle pointed out accurately) praying for a crowd as blessing to stop your words being a condemnation of Jesus. Despite the meaning of the words "giving thanks" being prayer.

Other Christian faiths do make a point of ritualised prayer which is on show with special clothes and chants but that is not witnesses.

The basic meaning of the word pray is to communicate with God there for any words directed to him are pray.

Jesus specifically "gave thanks" for the loaves to his father this is recognisably a pray of thanksgiving. Something the Jews and Christians knew to be an apsect or prayer that they did.

Philippians 4:6
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

Colossians 1:3
We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

You simply redefine what you consider to be pray to your own opinion ignoring the context of it in bible usage.

Elderelle was spot on when she sees that Jesus in the verse you use is condemning doing pray for the sake of displaying yourself in front of men.

2/ When we are talking about john 6 and the lords evening meal we are talking about Jesus refering in both cases to his death and shedding blood for us the whole of mankind. you are trying to make them references to each other rather than his death and sacrifice.

It is Jesus's death and shed blood that saves us not our partaking of the remembrance meal.

Jesus himself says "Do this in remembrance of me" not "do this or else you will die!" but people tie it falsely with John 6 which is about our not being able to live unless we are partake of his actual death and sacrifice for us.

what we have is event A/ Jesus prediction in john 6 and event /B "lords evening meal" and both these are refering to Event /C Jesus actual death and sacrifice, not to each other.

3/ As for the old covenant! for the apostles and anointed the old covenant has been ended with but for those that are part of it still it remains Jesus shows this by his words for john the baptist who didn't live to be part of the new covenant and heavenly promise.

Matthew 11:11
I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

4/ I haven't got time to go into a whole michael debate but I think you know it as well as I do.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Dgp

Forgive my delayed reply I missed your question. Bible chonology was a specific part of prophecy that we and jews use. Certain events are predicted with reference to lengths of time "70 weeks, Times, time and half, 70 years, a day for a year" etc The Jews used Bible chronology to know when the messiah would happen hense why they were in expectation in Jesus's day. Bible chronology is an option that we can use when we have references to various lengths of time in Daniel and Revelation amogst other books around certaind events like the desolation of Jerusalem. As witnesses we do use Bible chronology but as with all prophecy it is very subjective depending on accuracy of evaluation so can be subject to error but that does not mean we have to avoid using it.

It is simply one of the bible tools available to us to be "ready" for Jesus's return etc.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi aguest

I get a headache from your proof texting.

1/ This scripture is about prayer not preaching work which both Jesus and his apostles did publically.

2/To disprove your reasoning this scripture I only have to show one instance of public prayer among a group of Christians. But are a few instead.

here the apostles praying for help as a groups.

Acts 1:14
They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

Acts 1:24
Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen

here Paul praying with fellow Christians

Acts 20:36
When he had said this, he knelt down with all of them and prayed.

Jesus was talking about the Jews specifically and how they had made prayer a showy display of themselves.

3/ John 6 Is about Jesus talking about his ACTUAL death and sacrifice and not the lords evening meal. You are misapplying this scripture woefully and considering your knowledge I am surprised at this one being on your list.

4/ I refer to the above.

5/ I refer to the above 3/

6/ people have to decide for themselves on the 144,000, bride, firstfruits. You explanation means you have to ignore all references to the 3 I just mentioned in the bible.

7/ Witnesses believe in the two covenants from the bible abrahamic (earthly) and the New covenant (heavenly) both can attain hope of life.

Col 1:19,20 For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in him; and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens,

Eph 1:9-12 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him to an administration of the fullness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, in him; in whom also we were assigned an inheritance, glory,....

8/ Michael is a whole subject in itself but I agree with them. I could post a whole list of the scriptures but I think most on here know the Michael debate.

9/ Many scholars throughout the last 1700 years have wondered over whether Judas was present during the meal trying to harmonise the 4 accounts. Why are you making this an issue with witnesses?

My motivations are my own on here but your questions when broken down aren't that complex.

75

I'm curious...

by JediMaster in

did anyone here claim to be of the anointed and partook of the emblems at memorial when you were still a witness???

if so, was there really a force telling you, you were special and would go to heaven?

or was it more so overjoy at how spritual you though you were?

debator

Hi Aguest

No keeping account of injury is a personal subject and usually involves both sides repenting but repentence is a main Bible theme.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Jehovah. Repent and live!

Matthew 3:2
and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Matthew 3:7-10 (New International Version)

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Luke 17:4
If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Acts 11:18
When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.

Rebuke and discipline is showing love as well which any parent knows, it keeps our children safe teaching them accountability and repentence of wrongdoing.

We are ont talking about silly little offences and personal injuries but major sins that we have to keep the congregation clean from for protection.

13

"Neither be called leaders" vs "Obey your leaders"

by Bonnie_Clyde in

i'm trying to harmonize matt.

23:10 with hebrews 13:17. any thoughts?

or is this a contradiction?.

debator

Hi wibble

Before Paul the apostles in acts and romans recognise their leadership roles so don't lay this on Paul. It is recognised as a gift.

Acts 1:20
"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, " 'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, " 'May another take his place of leadership.'

Romans 12:6-8
6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his [a] faith. 7 If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

42

Some Question(s) for Debator...

by AGuest in

greetings... and may you have peace!.

1. the witnesses are now out in full force doing "street work"... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:5?.

2. the "elders" etc., pray publicly, from the podium... in light of christ's words at matthew 6:6?.

debator

Hi Aguest

I have to go out but I will take a good look at your questions later, a quick glance already shows me that we will disagree a lot. The first two are simply you hurling accusations at witnesses and taking scripture out of context to apply itto something it doesn't cover. but I will speak more on this later.

44

JW Home study

by wiser in

jw
friends

can anyone tell me how long the jw homestudy lasts.

we are already going on a year and a half, and thank god i have not been converted yet.

i am sick of hearing their version of the bible.

debator

HI sharah

If one has to be saved do they need to be a Christian?

Acts 26:28-29 (New International Version)

28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?"

29 Paul replied, "Short time or long—I pray God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains."

Paul said yes. Having Confidence that you are God's people and flock is not a sin.

It is unfortunate that time has blurred christianity so it covers a widely massive collection of contradictory religions that are at odds with each other and do not even worship the same God anymore. But this is a predicted thing. So we have to as witnesses clarify this more than just saying "christian" which indeed we are but we have to separate ourselves for false weeds among christianity that have set up false gods and teachings.

The bible shows that false teachers, savage wolves will come among God's people with false Gospels/teachings and we must recognise this.

Acts 20:29-31 (New International Version)

29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard!

.Galatians 1:8-9 (New International Version)

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

At this time I truly believe Jehovah's witnesses are God's people, I personally tested them against the rest of the Christian religions and their teachings and found Jehovah's witnesses to be the most Biblically true religion by about a mile and a half. but it is for each person to decide for themselves.

All roads do not lead to God! "Narrow" is the path leading to Jesus our way to reconciliation with Jehovah his father. Jesus isn't a figurehead sat upon a load of different teachings and waring people, but he has one truth, one message and he got it from his father. If you think you have found the people in this time that have seen through the Savage wolves/weeds and and recognisably teach the real message from the Bible then it is no sin to commit to them as God's flock and people. To hold something back and say "maybe they are" is not giving a full commitment to the flock.